The Outsider

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Cranked » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:25 pm
To me it's just not a thing

the whole idea of competition is that it happens in the presence of the Foe. Go away and shoot film of your best rides is a hoax. You could ride 100 waves and finally get one good one. That's not the deal. The deal is outfoxing the opponent.

That's where the fire is. That's where it gets sorted out.
As a competitor Nick you might have a biased view, I just want to see great waves ridden well. I would watch Padang, Outside Corner, the Bombie, for hours and hours when it was good, all I wanted to see was the best waves, the drama of each move, the best way into the barrel - I was never ranking surfers just good surfing on good waves.
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Re: The Outsider

Post by steve shearer » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:56 pm

Thud wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:45 pm
Well, who really plans for a pandemic in their business model?
I said the pandemic exposed the flaws in the business model.

you understand the difference, right?

They cannot make a comp at Fiji pay, despite every single pro who has ever lived saying it is their fav event and every surf fan loving to watch it.

Yet they are back to city beachbreaks, selling bums on seats to politicians to save the Aussie leg and ipso facto the entire tour.

thats a fundamental flaw they have not been able to solve, or even attempt to solve.

their solution: wave pools, now looks dead in the water. Absolutely no one is clamouring for that.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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Re: The Outsider

Post by channels » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:20 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:32 pm
And I tell ya what, there'll be a lot of kids at any of the Australian venues who'll be stoked out of their minds at the chance to meet or even just see people like JJF, Italo, Steph, Carissa, etc etc etc, in free surfs, in competitive action, and maybe saying hello or whatever.

Those surfers are genuine stars, you watch 'em surf live and you -- yes even you old men! -- will be blown away.
Maybe 1989 or 1990, I was suffering delusions of adequacy as a teenager thinking I was a bit of a shredder on the quality beachie known as Triggs in Perth. There was a comp known as the City Beach Night Surfing Classic, a shitty left that ran down a short groyne. Held at night under floodlights so the Freo Doctor didn’t rip it to shreds. I remember standing on the groyne watching your brother, Hardman and a bunch of other pros destroying these small waves. Absolutely stoked at the time to see a bullshit level at my local.
I get what you’re saying, I reckon plenty appreciate it.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Legion » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:35 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:38 pm
afterwards they ... came home and watched JOB on you-toob.
Would have thought he was passe to the kids.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Thud » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:53 am

steve shearer wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:56 pm
Thud wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:45 pm
Well, who really plans for a pandemic in their business model?
I said the pandemic exposed the flaws in the business model.

you understand the difference, right?

They cannot make a comp at Fiji pay, despite every single pro who has ever lived saying it is their fav event and every surf fan loving to watch it.

Yet they are back to city beachbreaks, selling bums on seats to politicians to save the Aussie leg and ipso facto the entire tour.

thats a fundamental flaw they have not been able to solve, or even attempt to solve.

their solution: wave pools, now looks dead in the water. Absolutely no one is clamouring for that.
I think the two are unrelated (i.e. pandemic and the established floors in the WSL business model)

But, that’s just my take.
Last edited by Thud on Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
marauding mullet wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:57 pm

….this was pushing off the wall not diving in.

...running out of breath underwater hasn’t been an issue. Not too bad for a 62 y/o who surfs irregularly.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Thud » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:59 am

channels wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:20 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:32 pm
And I tell ya what, there'll be a lot of kids at any of the Australian venues who'll be stoked out of their minds at the chance to meet or even just see people like JJF, Italo, Steph, Carissa, etc etc etc, in free surfs, in competitive action, and maybe saying hello or whatever.

Those surfers are genuine stars, you watch 'em surf live and you -- yes even you old men! -- will be blown away.
Maybe 1989 or 1990, I was suffering delusions of adequacy as a teenager thinking I was a bit of a shredder on the quality beachie known as Triggs in Perth. There was a comp known as the City Beach Night Surfing Classic, a shitty left that ran down a short groyne. Held at night under floodlights so the Freo Doctor didn’t rip it to shreds. I remember standing on the groyne watching your brother, Hardman and a bunch of other pros destroying these small waves. Absolutely stoked at the time to see a bullshit level at my local.
I get what you’re saying, I reckon plenty appreciate it.
I see Ace Buchanan in the water at least once a week with Micro. Great to watch, and he’s just training. How could one not want to see the best do their thing.
marauding mullet wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:57 pm

….this was pushing off the wall not diving in.

...running out of breath underwater hasn’t been an issue. Not too bad for a 62 y/o who surfs irregularly.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by steve shearer » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:00 am

Your trolling is getting lazier and dumber Thud.

Do you want people to engage in good faith with you?
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Thud » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:34 am

I just think you’re wrong linking an established business model failure to a once in a generation macro economic event i.e. the pandemic. The WSL was never a successful as a business in the first place. It’s a bullshit call.

If you’re going to get all hot under the collar and carry on like a teenage girl (above) just ignore me.

Note, I was addressing a statement not the person who wrote it.
marauding mullet wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:57 pm

….this was pushing off the wall not diving in.

...running out of breath underwater hasn’t been an issue. Not too bad for a 62 y/o who surfs irregularly.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:27 am

Cranked wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:25 pm
To me it's just not a thing

the whole idea of competition is that it happens in the presence of the Foe. Go away and shoot film of your best rides is a hoax. You could ride 100 waves and finally get one good one. That's not the deal. The deal is outfoxing the opponent.

That's where the fire is. That's where it gets sorted out.
As a competitor Nick you might have a biased view, I just want to see great waves ridden well. I would watch Padang, Outside Corner, the Bombie, for hours and hours when it was good, all I wanted to see was the best waves, the drama of each move, the best way into the barrel - I was never ranking surfers just good surfing on good waves.
Well I am just talking about competition, the way it's been played out in surfing over the past 50 years or so, I know very much the difference between that and just going surfing. More close observation of it than anything. But as a result of all that observation (and yeah some taking part for sure), to me, competition isn't interesting unless there's some blood in the water, and the only way to get that is to have the foes in the same water.

I have never believed that surfing competition is a hoax per se, it's just an extension of surfing, it's super fun to do, it brought a lot of surfers together over many years, and sometimes it has really really lived up to its promise. Seems to me like the question being faced right now, here, in Australia by the WSL etc, is about professional surfing. What's its purpose? Why is it even happening?

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Beanpole » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 am

I think they should just introduce age divisions in the surf. So say an old senior surfer is going for a wave only other old seniors can compete to catch it. :-D-: Obviously if you are the only senior surfer in the line up everyone has to just give you every wave you paddle for. Young hot shots can fight amongst themselves.
Speaking of which since Ive been going out at Bondi a bit again lately it's pretty hilarious how many learners seem to think someone paddling for a wave and about to take off is a cue for them to paddle frantically for the same wave. Don't they teach them anything at surf school. The number of times I've let the first wave of the set go by and seen literally every surfer in a crowded line up try to take off on that wave.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by steve shearer » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:13 am

Thud wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:34 am
I just think you’re wrong linking an established business model failure to a once in a generation macro economic event i.e. the pandemic. The WSL was never a successful as a business in the first place. It’s a bullshit call.

thats a fair statement.

The pandemic forced every sporting code and franchise to adapt and re-evaluate.

It's just bizarre that surfing couldn't leverage it's natural advantages to thrive in that altered landscape.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Thud » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:17 am

Agree with you re: adaptation.
marauding mullet wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:57 pm

….this was pushing off the wall not diving in.

...running out of breath underwater hasn’t been an issue. Not too bad for a 62 y/o who surfs irregularly.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Yuke Hunt » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:44 am

steve shearer wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:13 am
Thud wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:34 am
I just think you’re wrong linking an established business model failure to a once in a generation macro economic event i.e. the pandemic. The WSL was never a successful as a business in the first place. It’s a bullshit call.

thats a fair statement.

The pandemic forced every sporting code and franchise to adapt and re-evaluate.

It's just bizarre that surfing couldn't leverage it's natural advantages to thrive in that altered landscape.
Very few sports did ... once the borders closed, any international competition dried up ... along with the income.
I think its fair to say that Australia led the way in moving forward with domestic sport, NRL etc.
We've got the Aussie open on at the moment, and I'm continually hearing overseas commentators praise the Australian effort in respect to not only managing to hold the tournament, but the whole handling of Covid19 in general.
Unfortunately for the WSL, they've been in a transitional state without a solid plan for so long that they don't know which way up the road map should be held. I have a sneaking suspicion that we're going to see major shake up in the next couple of years, with maybe more attention paid to domestic competition formats, culminating in a cup final scenario ... similar to how the world title will be decided this year. They may even hack into the roster and reduce the field to facilitate events being held in a single swell window.
At the end of the day, anyone who follows profession surfing, just wants to see good surfing in good waves, and man on man, none of the 3 man heat shit, repechage rounds or insipid airs at 1 foot Pipe.
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on ... now all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel even half a line ... nor all thy tears wash out a single word of it.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by marauding mullet » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am

Nick Carroll wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:27 am
Cranked wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:25 pm
To me it's just not a thing

the whole idea of competition is that it happens in the presence of the Foe. Go away and shoot film of your best rides is a hoax. You could ride 100 waves and finally get one good one. That's not the deal. The deal is outfoxing the opponent.

That's where the fire is. That's where it gets sorted out.
As a competitor Nick you might have a biased view, I just want to see great waves ridden well. I would watch Padang, Outside Corner, the Bombie, for hours and hours when it was good, all I wanted to see was the best waves, the drama of each move, the best way into the barrel - I was never ranking surfers just good surfing on good waves.
Well I am just talking about competition, the way it's been played out in surfing over the past 50 years or so, I know very much the difference between that and just going surfing. More close observation of it than anything. But as a result of all that observation (and yeah some taking part for sure), to me, competition isn't interesting unless there's some blood in the water, and the only way to get that is to have the foes in the same water.

I have never believed that surfing competition is a hoax per se, it's just an extension of surfing, it's super fun to do, it brought a lot of surfers together over many years, and sometimes it has really really lived up to its promise. Seems to me like the question being faced right now, here, in Australia by the WSL etc, is about professional surfing. What's its purpose? Why is it even happening?
I guess I qualify for "old guy bitterness" but my thoughts on this haven't changed since I was a teenager. I couldn't care less if people want to make surfing a sport and have competitions. It's the big picture that goes along with it, the promotion of surfing that rankles me. The exposure of every wave to promote some company or individual. It's slowly but surely become O.K. to do it, nothing is sacred, and for what? Money. It would be ideal if competition was always just at interclub level. That probably has been said a million times and sounds simplistic, but we've managed to keep a lid on most of this shit in S.A. and it hasn't been easy, so I have strong feelings about it.
petulance wrote: 01100100 01101001 01100111 01101001 01110100 01100001 01101100 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01101011

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Cranked » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:06 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:27 am
Cranked wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:25 pm
To me it's just not a thing

the whole idea of competition is that it happens in the presence of the Foe. Go away and shoot film of your best rides is a hoax. You could ride 100 waves and finally get one good one. That's not the deal. The deal is outfoxing the opponent.

That's where the fire is. That's where it gets sorted out.
As a competitor Nick you might have a biased view, I just want to see great waves ridden well. I would watch Padang, Outside Corner, the Bombie, for hours and hours when it was good, all I wanted to see was the best waves, the drama of each move, the best way into the barrel - I was never ranking surfers just good surfing on good waves.
Well I am just talking about competition, the way it's been played out in surfing over the past 50 years or so, I know very much the difference between that and just going surfing. More close observation of it than anything. But as a result of all that observation (and yeah some taking part for sure), to me, competition isn't interesting unless there's some blood in the water, and the only way to get that is to have the foes in the same water.

I have never believed that surfing competition is a hoax per se, it's just an extension of surfing, it's super fun to do, it brought a lot of surfers together over many years, and sometimes it has really really lived up to its promise. Seems to me like the question being faced right now, here, in Australia by the WSL etc, is about professional surfing. What's its purpose? Why is it even happening?
I do like surf comps, and I like to see the best surfer of the day - and year - win, but my real focus is the waves themselves and the skill and drama that each surfer brings to the situation. The best thing I've seen in the last few years was the two guys at ulu's towing into that big swell and getting the best waves ever surfed there.

There was about 30 of us screaming our heads off, just 6 waves ridden IIRC. The best moment for me was the aplomb with which one of them pulled into the biggest barrel I've ever seen, knowing he couldn't pull it off and was going to get the pounding of his life with a good chance of not surviving.

Miraculously it seemed, the ski was in the trough right behind and the ski rider managed to haul him out before the next wave hit, then ride in the trough between the waves until he could finally get back out about a k down the coast.
“I don’t necessarily agree with everything I say ”— Marshall McLuhan

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Yuke Hunt » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:06 pm

marauding mullet wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am


... we've managed to keep a lid on most of this shit in S.A. and it hasn't been easy.
Image
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Re: The Outsider

Post by Legion » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:13 pm

marauding mullet wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am
The exposure of every wave to promote some company or individual.
Heh. I thought the "I surf the sand" jeep ad during comps was bad but that new one on mainstream tv is horrendous.

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Re: The Outsider

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:18 pm

marauding mullet wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:58 am
Nick Carroll wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:27 am
Cranked wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:25 pm
To me it's just not a thing

the whole idea of competition is that it happens in the presence of the Foe. Go away and shoot film of your best rides is a hoax. You could ride 100 waves and finally get one good one. That's not the deal. The deal is outfoxing the opponent.

That's where the fire is. That's where it gets sorted out.
As a competitor Nick you might have a biased view, I just want to see great waves ridden well. I would watch Padang, Outside Corner, the Bombie, for hours and hours when it was good, all I wanted to see was the best waves, the drama of each move, the best way into the barrel - I was never ranking surfers just good surfing on good waves.
Well I am just talking about competition, the way it's been played out in surfing over the past 50 years or so, I know very much the difference between that and just going surfing. More close observation of it than anything. But as a result of all that observation (and yeah some taking part for sure), to me, competition isn't interesting unless there's some blood in the water, and the only way to get that is to have the foes in the same water.

I have never believed that surfing competition is a hoax per se, it's just an extension of surfing, it's super fun to do, it brought a lot of surfers together over many years, and sometimes it has really really lived up to its promise. Seems to me like the question being faced right now, here, in Australia by the WSL etc, is about professional surfing. What's its purpose? Why is it even happening?
I guess I qualify for "old guy bitterness" but my thoughts on this haven't changed since I was a teenager. I couldn't care less if people want to make surfing a sport and have competitions. It's the big picture that goes along with it, the promotion of surfing that rankles me. The exposure of every wave to promote some company or individual. It's slowly but surely become O.K. to do it, nothing is sacred, and for what? Money. It would be ideal if competition was always just at interclub level. That probably has been said a million times and sounds simplistic, but we've managed to keep a lid on most of this shit in S.A. and it hasn't been easy, so I have strong feelings about it.
lol if it's for money the WSL are bogging, all they've done is invest, overall they're probably $100 plus million in the hole.

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