john howard is a bare faced liar

[PB]

"actually he never had a hope really against the might of the coalition"

That's incorrect

When Latham became leader of the opposition he polled very very strongly (about 55-45) until he started shooting from the hip and then had his meltdown

This had nothing to do with the "might of the coalition"

Mark Latham self-destructed

[puurri]

Non complsory voting? I've always been against it. Reckoned everyone should have their say.
However, in the context of this discussion, I'm having a re-think.
Just might help weed out the donkeys.

mind you that snuck through late in the night as a private members bill abt 1924 (much like Harradine's "gifts" to the voters)

[LONGINUS]

"actually he never had a hope really against the might of the coalition"

That's incorrect

When Latham became leader of the opposition he polled very very strongly (about 55-45) until he started shooting from the hip and then had his meltdown

This had nothing to do with the "might of the coalition"

Mark Latham self-destructed

You dont know the true power of the coalition!

You will at the next election though. Malcolm Turnbull's economic experience combined with former portfolio experience as Environmental Minister is the perfect duo in the current world climate I feel.

Success will depend on how well they can market it to the people though.

[Nick Carroll]

Malcolm Turnbull's economic experience combined with former portfolio experience as Environmental Minister is the perfect duo in the current world climate I feel.

there's a few million slips of the cup to Rudd's, Gillard's, Swan's etc lips that'll have to happen before Malcolm Turnbull makes it to PM.

He's the modern day Andrew Peacock.

[Dingus]

You mean that they will get their act together before then and start presenting themselves as a practical alternate? From what I've seen of them I wouldn't touch them at all.

I've voted Liberal a few times, mainly because there wasn't an alternate to Howard. I'm a swinging voter who doesn't want to be one-sided and blinkered simply as a die-hard Liberal or Labour person. But seriously, what is being presented at the moment in the Opposition? No thanks.

[lessormore]

A lot of people see Malcom Turnbull as a merchant banker and relate that to the current financial meltdown. He'll have to do some hard sell to convince people he's not one of them-he's one of us!

[Grooter]

"actually he never had a hope really against the might of the coalition"

That's incorrect

When Latham became leader of the opposition he polled very very strongly (about 55-45) until he started shooting from the hip and then had his meltdown

This had nothing to do with the "might of the coalition"

Mark Latham self-destructed

Can't argue there. Latham had it all for the taking. The infamous handshake and the idiocy of Medicare Gold sealed his fate.

Voting should be compulsory and while 80% may stay with the one party I doubt that is always the case. In the last election a lot of rusted on Lib voters turned for Krudd.

[Dingus]

What's the go with Joe Hocking? The bloke wants to be a bulldog. Is he like this naturally or does he want to show a tough front in a push for leadership later, or is he the token feral?

[Nick Carroll]

The American system came about after decades of abuse of the people by an occupying force, hence its designed to reward and involve citizens within the election process that they had just fought for the right to put in place.

As a recent article in the New Yorker stated, the American "system" is really just a bunch of patches upon patches, and it actually owes a considerable debt to Australia.

Guess what, we invented the supplied-ballot electoral method!

Back in the day, more or less after the "abuse of the people by an occupying force", US citizens -- in order to vote -- had to publicly attend an open forum and supply their own hand written vote, or in some states, actually say it out loud or vote with their hands. This was done on the basis that if you were a real Man, courageous etc, then you'd be willing to state your convictions in front of the mob.

This opened things up for extraordinary sh*t. One 19th century presidential election resulted in the deaths of 89 citizens of New York, after they'd been set upon by enforcers for the other team.

Result, duh, lots of people thought better of voting. Not that all that many people COULD vote anyway; you had to be a man of property, only then could you be trusted to make a sensible decision.

The secret ballot system using forms supplied by an independent electoral arbiter -- invented in Victoria in 1924 -- changed the face of elections in the US after it was finally introduced after a long battle by a couple of avid Congressional fans. But the systems were still in the hands of the states; Virginia didn't introduce the secret ballot until 1961.

For what it's worth, I'm kind of a fan of compulsory voting (as well as the secret ballot and independent arbiter), it encourages everyone to take part and discourages the efforts of special interest groups to "swing" elections. Non-mandatory voting is a weakness of the US system, not a strength.

[Slowman]

Are you guys trying to tell me his nick name of "Honest John" was just a lie?

[PB]

You will at the next election though. Malcolm Turnbull's economic experience combined with former portfolio experience as Environmental Minister is the perfect duo in the current world climate I feel

Charmingly idealistic, yet totally unrealistic

In Australian political history, I think there's only ever been one single-term Federal Govt (though Howard came close in 1998)

In short, Australians don't vote Govts out after one term. It's the third election that's the hard-fought one

And given Turnbull's current "preferred PM rating" compared with Rudd's (i.e. 22 -v- 62), it's sensible to say it would take a miracle or a scandal to put Malcolm & Lucy in The Lodge by 2010

[PB]

What's the go with Joe Hocking? The bloke wants to be a bulldog. Is he like this naturally or does he want to show a tough front in a push for leadership later, or is he the token feral?

No, the token feral is Tony "I'm a really good Christian, but have no hesitation in lying on the 7.30 Rpt about my meeting with George Pell, swearing at Nicola Roxon or slandering Bernie Banton just before he dies" Abbott

Joe Hockey is just a tool

[oldman]

Worth reading Thomas More's "Utopia" again for hints on how to run a country. I loved the bits on leadership where expressing any apsiration to lead meant you were disqualified from such roles. Also, if your personal fortune increased because of your time being a leader, you would be executed.
You'd Think twice about your share portfolio wouldnt you?

Thanks for that monkey, never got around to 'Utopia'.

I'd heard long ago about the idea that leadership roles should exclude those who want it. While our basic political system is flawed, the underlying problem is that humanity is flawed, one of the biggest problems being that those who seek leadership are, by definition, the sort of people who shouldn't be given any.

Current political systems are an extension of this original flaw. Bit hard working out how you could create a system to get around the problem though.

[chrisb]

and another nugget from OMP. Brown as usual

but at least OMP's telling the truth ...

Agree that we need balance in this debate and that Rudd has told lies and not fulfilled some promises.

The difference is that Rudd's lies have not resulted in young men been needlessly sent to their deaths overseas.

Who can prove to me that the Bali bombing was not a direct result of Howard's brown-nosing to Bush to send troops to Iraq? Even Mick Keelty suggested so until he was checked into submission in that stage-managed press conference complete with the sickeningly obligatory handshake and beaming smile from Howard.

[Slowman]

What's the go with Joe Hocking? The bloke wants to be a bulldog. Is he like this naturally or does he want to show a tough front in a push for leadership later, or is he the token feral?

No, the token feral is Tony "I'm a really good Christian, but have no hesitation in lying on the 7.30 Rpt about my meeting with George Pell, swearing at Nicola Roxon or slandering Bernie Banton just before he dies" Abbott

Joe Hockey is just a tool

But he was a good Rugby player went to the right school and all. He is a white Noel Person...does anyone else hear and see the resemblance?

I had hopes that Turnbull would turn the Liberal Party back into a more progressive liberal political force but since the Bill Henson nude teen photo scandal he has shown himself to be politically inept...taking a stance that was at odds with nearly everyone on the matter, showing just how out of touch he was with the community.

[puurri]

But he was a good Rugby player went to the right school and all. He is a white Noel Person...does anyone else hear and see the resemblance?

He wasn't much good at rugby at school, as far as i can remember. Just a fat kid with no mates. Hasn't changed much i guess.

metaphorically or ideologically?

[Buff_Brad]

But he was a good Rugby player went to the right school and all. He is a white Noel Person...does anyone else hear and see the resemblance?

He wasn't much good at rugby at school, as far as i can remember. Just a fat kid with no mates. Hasn't changed much i guess.

metaphorically or ideologically?

literally

All of the above.

[Kunji]

I had hopes that Turnbull would turn the Liberal Party back into a more progressive liberal political force but since the Bill Henson nude teen photo scandal he has shown himself to be politically inept...taking a stance that was at odds with nearly everyone on the matter, showing just how out of touch he was with the community.

Turnbull doesnt care about the Liberal Party. He only cares for himself. He just happens to be a Lib.