Fortune Magazine article on Surftech/Tuflite

[Clif]

two different industries and two different cultures. albeit they blend. but collapsing the 2 into each other is just lazy. snowboarding is not surfing

[Hawkeye]

I think everyone has forgotten that shaping surfboards used to be about art and technique now they seem to want generic...
Jon at Chaos handshapes all his boards with no computer aided steps at all. So do so many others it's not about how but who nowadays and I think it's a shame i spend alot of time in shapers bays just watchin the magic and for me thats the best part of traditionally made boards. Not the standardised graphics and the names. Some of my best boards have been from guys that don't even use logos they don't want to be known they have an appreciation for the art of making a board.

That's certainly a valid viewpoint and an aesthetic choice that I can respect.

Howeevr, I suspect most of the market really only cares about how the board goes under their feet and thinks very little about the welfare of the guy who made it. Right or wrong, it's human nature <shrug>. Witness what's happened in the Australian clothing and footwear trade.

Personally, I prefer the reproducibility that computer profiling offers, because I know then that each board will be a true evolution from the last one held on file. Even the best hand shapers by their own confession can't get two supposedly identical boards exactly the same, even when built consecutively. So you have to wonder when they try it after a six month gap from your last board.

What I think will happen is that tuflite technology or something similar will eventually leak onto the custom market, purely because it's opened eyes to what's possible. However, the cost of skinning the core with HD foam between two glass skins will see the hand-crafted custom become the premium product available to those who can afford it.

Big call, I know, but the precedents are there in a lot of other industries.

[smw1]

The comparison isn't lazy, Clif, it's about how the ski/snowboard manufacturing industries changed from cottage industries to high tech R&D and manufacturing as people realised they could take advantage of new production techniques and materials, and more and more corporate money was pumped into the sport.

Snowboarding and surfing have a lot in common - the need for different equipment to suit different conditions, riders or riding styles.

I'm not saying that Surftech offers the answer to surfboard production of the future, or that we'll all be riding Tuflites in 50 years time. You would need a crystal ball for that.

What I am saying is that things never stay the same, and we shouldn't refuse to accept change , but have an open mind, try things out and see what works for us and what doesn't.

Sooner or later there will be a revolution in surfboard manufacture - it happens ever now and again, and we're probably long overdue considering how long trusty foam and fibreglass have been around. Do you really believe that in 20 years time, our kids will be riding boards built the same as they were built back in 2005?

Back to my earlier point though, the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. Time will tell.

SMW1

[bro]

All very valid points but you are all concentrating on the manufacturing technique like that is the issue. I don't think it is for me anyway the issue is peformance and until these boards perform as well as traditional boards and pro's start riding them and winning world titles I don't think they will be seen as the "answer".
I still stand by my comments in other threads that the consumer of surftech technology (at this stage) are longboarders, weekend warriors and kooks (with exceptions of course)

[ric_vidal]

As Poorboy indicated it is consumer driven. I don't know if the retailers are more actively promoting them or not because there is a better margin or whether they are pointing out to customers a supposed longevity.

Bro is 100% right. I still haven't heard anyone who REALLY loves them and thinks they are the best thing since...

They still break, they still ding, they cost more and what do you want the shiny red one or the blue one?

I thought surfing was about having just the right board made for YOU. Nothing better than the anticpation of a new board.

One size clearly does not fit all!

We could do exactly what Cobra International does in Thailand and they would still shit on us for price. Hence so much manufacturing is done overseas with cheaper labour and we all know it.

All the power to Surftech/Tuflite and if that's what people want so be it. Personally, I think they are souless, but the same can probably said for a lot of the local product as well.

[collnarra]

As Poorboy indicated it is consumer driven. I don't know if the retailers are more actively promoting them or not because there is a better margin or whether they are pointing out to customers a supposed longevity.

The retailers are pushing them. My local surf shop, owned by a local surfer, probably has 90% tuflights in its racks. He tells people that they're more durable and better value. They also have better margins. (and that, I suspect, is his real motivation)

We could do exactly what Cobra International does in Thailand and they would still shit on us for price. Hence so much manufacturing is done overseas with cheaper labour and we all know it.

So why aren't tufflites cheaper than a custom board? Because if they were priced less, they'd be revealed as being the cheap, mass produced product that they are. Perception is everything. By giving them a premium price the manufacturers and retailers can claim they're a premium product.

What shits me about the tufflite is that there's nothing new or innovative in the tech they use; the boards don't go better than a standard foam/fibreglass board; and they're only marginally more durable.

If there was something innovative about them, or if they went better and you could demonstrably show that getting on one would improve your performance (and equipment rarely does without an improvement in physical performance), then they might have something interesting.

Let's call these for what they are: mass produced, mass marketed pieces of crap for kooks.

Who was it that said there's a sucker born every minute?
.

[ric_vidal]

CN - you're damn right about the construction et al and whilst I don't like labeling people I think they are attracting a certain type of consumer. Therein may lie their ultimate success or failure.

I had a pretty good idea the margins were healthy from invlovement with another company using Cobra for a different product.

They have been bloody clever to price themselves as a premium product and to give them their dues the finish is bloody good. (Still don't like opaque boards even if it is only cosmetic.)

Still a few fingers in the pie when you consider the trail from Cobra to consumer.

Didn't pass judgement on their performance as I have never ridden one, and strictly base my opinion on what I have read and people I have spoken to who own or have tried them and they all say more or less the same thing, OK up to a point.

I did hear from a very reliable industry source that McT were complaining about the drop in sales of their normal 'Original' boards which is contrary to the Channel Island scenario. So guess you can't have it both ways.

The cynic that I am, even if the pros started turning to them I wouldn't be convinced as you can bet it would be money driven and most of the guys on the tour could ride anything and look good.

What happened to Kieren Perrow since he turned to S-Cores? At least I think there is a bit of custom on them, but at their price they would want to be a magic bullet.

[offshore1]

It lasts a year or so (which is as long as I ever want to keep a board for) and then I can get something else that's been crafted for ME by someone that cares about their craft.

all well and good, and apologies in advance for being the devil's advocate here, but 'use one year and throw away' equipment really opens up another can of worms: irresponsible utilization of limited resources, namely petrochemicals.

i own both types of boards and i work around boats and the marine environment every day. epoxy beats polyester resin hands down, in strengh, flexibility, adhesion. it's about 10 times more expensive, tho.

surfboard industry, listen up: put some serious efforts into making custom, 'one off', boards more robust pros can afford to break three boards a day, not working dogs like the rest of us.

[surfscracking]

To me it is no different from fashion really. When you look at it now the 70's boards,single fins,fishes etc are all the rage. Everything has its time in a market place. It is now down to fashion cycles as to when their time will be.

Also take a look at the fin market if you really think they don't have a place, when fcs,futures and speed fins now dominate the market place.

Surfboard technology whether it be for good or bad will never stop and this is a very good thing for our sport.

What would of happened if the ape never got to his feet and started talking. We sure wouldn't be having this conversation nor riding surfboards.

Embrace evolution because one things for sure . YOU WILL NOT STOP IT.

[collnarra]

Hiya,

Fins: offer demonstrable performance and utility differences over glass-ins (generally speaking, tho you should ask yourself why pros use glass ons almost exclusively).

Fashion: doesn't usually have much to do with function. Foam overtook balsa because it had better performance, was lighter, and easier to manufacture. It was also customisable.

It's interesting also that you think this is a completely fashion driven sport, and that retro boards are now "in." I tell ya, I don't see any good surfers at my local riding those old pieces of garbage. Besides, what have retro boards got to do with materials, which is what this thread is all about?

Progress is good, but I really don't think that the tuflites represent progress. Surfers that buy 'em are being sold a pup. They're being told they have an advanced, high tech surfboard. They don't.

I think it's also interesting that very few of the people that ride these things are surfers that grew up around the beach, have strong connections to their local communities etc. I think this says something.

Another poster mentioned disposable boards and environmental costs. This is a valid point, and not easily answered. I'd be interested to see whether anyone has done a carbon emissions analysis on conventional surfboard manufacture vs tuflite. All that shipping stuff back and forth can't be great.

As for the landfill aspect, well so long as boards are not leaching toxins into groundwater, then landfill is neither here nor there.

[smw1]

This was an interesting discussion, but seems to now be degenerating into the usual nonsense e.g. "anyone who buys a tuflite/doesn't hang out with their local shaper is a kook". Pity really.

Just before I sign off, a couple of final thoughts:

(1) What the pros ride has almost no bearing on me.

Their single overriding requirement is performance. My requirements are more diverse - durability, cost, how easy the board is to live with etc. Performance is obviously important to me too, but hardly as crucial as it is for someone who competes. I'm not surfing to make my living.

(2) There are many misconceptions about Surftech being perpetuated.

Despite what some posters seem to be suggesting, my understanding is that the company is not claiming to have discovered epoxy or anything like that, but that it is using a new method of manufacture involving combinations of existing materials. I don't know whether Surftech has filed patents around its manufacturing processes, but I would be surprised if it hasn't.

(3) Tuflites are certainly not indestructable, but they are stronger than any fibreglass board I've ever owned.

I was talking to a mate about this the other day, and to prove the point I flipped over my randy french 6'6, stood on the base and bounced over the rocker. I weigh 92kg.

I also slapped the nose as hard as I could with an open palm. No dramas.


Have a good weekend.

SMW1

[CARPARKKING]

tuflites are too bouant, no matter how thin you can get them, they r nothing compared to a hand shaped craft

[collnarra]

There are many misconceptions about Surftech being perpetuated.

Despite what some posters seem to be suggesting, my understanding is that the company is not claiming to have discovered epoxy or anything like that, but that it is using a new method of manufacture involving combinations of existing materials. I don't know whether Surftech has filed patents around its manufacturing processes, but I would be surprised if it hasn't.

(3) Tuflites are certainly not indestructable, but they are stronger than any fibreglass board I've ever owned.

I was talking to a mate about this the other day, and to prove the point I flipped over my randy french 6'6, stood on the base and bounced over the rocker. I weigh 92kg.

I also slapped the nose as hard as I could with an open palm. No dramas.


Have a good weekend.

SMW1

So essentially what you're saying is:

a) I can stand on the board on dry land. It doesn't break. Must be ace.

b) I don't really care that much about design coz I'm just out there having a bit of a go.

my response: take up ten pin bowling. The balls are standardised. You can have a great run at the pins and they even hire shoes.

If you want a discussion, great; but simply saying "I stood on my board and it didn't break" doesn't mean shit.

COL

[Johnno]

Don't let the hype get to you Col.................

After the early years of the thruster, most developments these days has more to do with hype than function.

Helps the sheep spend there cash...............

Bit like the wheel.....................