Ask Carroll

[marauding mullet]

Don't bend over in front of them either.

[Gasherbrum4]

Nick,
Could you could give a bit of history to the modern 'pig dog' stance of backhand tuberiding. I'm guessing a lot of the credit would have to go to the South Shore boys Liddell, Ferreira, Kealoha et al at Ala Moana?

[Hollowed out]

'll tell you who by the way. Kids from Brazil. Kids from Hawaii. Kids from Europe. Kids from anywhere surfing looks like their only lifeline.
Nick Carroll
Duke Status

So Nick whattabout Jack Robbo, Mikey Wright et al? Are you saying they might have the ability but not the gut retching hunger to go all the way because they have options?

MR, Shaun and others from the 80's had great family support and options that where in stark contrast to MP,Pottz and others. Some in the modern era like Buchan finished school with good results and have always had options beyond pro surfing.

Smart, confident, supported and relaxed will trump hunger and desperation in this era aka JJF

[Beanpole]

Zebra?
Just buy a donkey and paint stripes on it.

I thought Potz had parental support as in being taken to Hawaii etc?
That's from my distant memory of reading surfing mags in the 80s.

[Nick Carroll]

Nothing trumps hunger and desperation in sports. It's part of the growth curve for any athlete. The surfer who remains calm and relaxed throughout a career which incorporates a world championship has not yet been born. That goes for MR and Shaun as much as it does for all the others. I guess what I am talking about here is whether or not a surfer feels driven to achieve more than he or she has already. It's super easy to turn away from a goal that seems incredibly hard to achieve if you have options - and by that I mean options within surfing, that allow you to live a pretty footloose surfing life without the constant up and down of competition, and the likelihood that you'll fail in the attempt. Despite the surf industry's struggles of late, the Western surfing culture is still vastly wealthier and more marketing driven than it was 35 years ago, and kids like Jack and Mikey can balance their competitive careers with plenty of image making exercises and do really well out of it without laying everything on the line the way that first generation of pros had to. (Shaun, the first paid tour pro, earned the princely sum of $500 a month from ONeill in 1977; Johnny Florence, now the highest paid surfer in the world, earns about a thousand times that amount.)

Re JJF, by the way, don't anybody be super surprised if he doesn't win a world championship during his pro career. He's already succeeded beyond almost any young surfers wildest dreams, and for sure he has goals he's yet to achieve and no doubt will (Pipe Masters? Eddie?). But a world title is not written on his forehead the way it was written on the TCs or AIs or Fannings or Slaters. To get one he will have to find a way to make it part of his every waking and sleeping moment, part of his blood's pulse.

[Beanpole]

The role of surfing in generally improving third world surfers lives is great too.
I remember a few years ago took the kids to medewi and went to rent them a board and I was looking at the young guys hanging around the surf shop doing bugger all really. Just chatting up the local girls and surfing. I said to someone you know maybe them just getting into surfing hadn't been such a good idea since they didn't appear to have jobs much. The other guy said they earned more money repairing dings than just about any body in town made working their clacker off. They were cruising. Classic.

[OddaP]

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[Hollowed out]

[quote="Nick Carroll"]Nothing trumps hunger and desperation in sports. It's part of the growth curve for any athlete. The surfer who remains calm and relaxed throughout a career which incorporates a world championship has not yet been born.

I don't buy it Nick,what about Curren, can't recall him being like the others. The Haliewa no logo session was a classic calm and relaxed curren show of dominance. Dooma 'the iceman' never did it tough and had unbelievable NN support guiding him through the tough times.

Hunger and desperation are not unique to 'getting out of jail' but can be just a desire to win or succeed which is often in one's DNA. Then off course there is raw talent and the nerve to capitalise on it that rises to the surface and triumphs over all manner of hunger and desperation. JJF has that in spades and Kelly has always had it (bolstered by an insane hunger to win at anything life puts before him).

Pipe final for me was the greatest example of two super talented surfers both wanting the win, not because of desperation or hunger, but by desire and nerve of who was in position when the right wave came with a clock ticking. Remaining calm and relaxed under pressure has to be the ace in the pack of any champion.

[Nick Carroll]

You know I once asked Tom Curren what he felt underlying his competitive impulse, in the full flood of competition, and he said pretty much exactly the same thing every surfing world champ has told me in reply: Anger, fear, desperation.

What it looks like is not always what it is.

What's extraordinary about the great performances under pressure in surfing or any sport is the way in which the athlete calms him or her self and turns all that emotional energy toward the service of the goal. Without that energy they'd never get there in the first place.

[Beanpole]

Yeah, Curren in particular always looked ill at ease with the competitive scene.
A bit like Agassi saying he hated tennis when he was in his prime.

[Hollowed out]

You know I once asked Tom Curren what he felt underlying his competitive impulse, in the full flood of competition, and he said pretty much exactly the same thing every surfing world champ has told me in reply: Anger, fear, desperation.

What it looks like is not always what it is.

What's extraordinary about the great performances under pressure in surfing or any sport is the way in which the athlete calms him or her self and turns all that emotional energy toward the service of the goal. Without that energy they'd never get there in the first place.

yep good reply as I guess you get to hear it from them face to face not what we see filtered through whatever media.

I guess it has always seemed that in the past you had to be world champ of surfing to make it pay (or at least have a chance to just surf for a living), whereas today top twenty can make a career out of and there is enough slopping around to even allow the likes of 'free surfers like BI,Ozzie et al to make a decent living rather than a job as most would know it.

So is that what you see as the reason Aust will be struggling to maintain our glorious history. Maybe it could be termed the BT (Tomic) syndrome as opposed to the dogged Hewitt hard yards.

[Roy_Stewart]

No mention of alcohol, a hidden demon for many, perhaps more for the aussies?

[marauding mullet]

No mention of alcohol, a hidden demon for many, perhaps more for the aussies?

Good subject to discuss over a beer.

[romak50]

Re JJF, by the way, don't anybody be super surprised if he doesn't win a world championship during his pro career. He's already succeeded beyond almost any young surfers wildest dreams, and for sure he has goals he's yet to achieve and no doubt will (Pipe Masters? Eddie?). But a world title is not written on his forehead the way it was written on the TCs or AIs or Fannings or Slaters. To get one he will have to find a way to make it part of his every waking and sleeping moment, part of his blood's pulse.

So you really think fanning had 3 time world champ written on forehead? Not saying JJ does but fanning at the same age seemed to have a classic case of all the talent on the world but not giving a shhit.

[Nick Carroll]

Re JJF, by the way, don't anybody be super surprised if he doesn't win a world championship during his pro career. He's already succeeded beyond almost any young surfers wildest dreams, and for sure he has goals he's yet to achieve and no doubt will (Pipe Masters? Eddie?). But a world title is not written on his forehead the way it was written on the TCs or AIs or Fannings or Slaters. To get one he will have to find a way to make it part of his every waking and sleeping moment, part of his blood's pulse.

So you really think fanning had 3 time world champ written on forehead? Not saying JJ does but fanning at the same age seemed to have a classic case of all the talent on the world but not giving a shhit.

Well to me he had. Watching Mick as a 15 year old junior, he seemed to me to have a world title in him for sure. He had a lot of growing up to do and was very unsure of himself in some social situations, but he also had a quiet sort of steely side to him, a lot hidden inside that if engaged, could drive him to great heights in the sport. It wasn't till the opportunity was almost taken away from him that he really clicked in and made the most of his abilities.

hollowed I dunno about the Tomic comparison, I'm speaking in quite general terms here and Australian surfing is not in the same woeful shape as Australian tennis. There were a few Tomics around in Aussie surfing in the 1980s; they just weren't very noticeable under the blizzard of Nadals and Federers. But the fact is that competing is extremely uncomfortable and rattling for anyone who tries to take it on seriously; it hurts to lose and you're gonna lose a lot, and if you're the kind who doesn't lose a lot, each loss will hurt way more just to make up for it. Curren -- touchingly modest when it comes to thinking of his own wave riding skills -- has always said that winning heats is really just a matter of getting the heat format wired, and the world champ is the guy who's done that better than anyone else that year. But to get that format that wired takes a lot of hard lessons and ego knocks and there's many a talented surfer who isn't up for it in the longer run. Especially when there are easy alternatives on offer.

[Nick Carroll]

No mention of alcohol, a hidden demon for many, perhaps more for the aussies?

Well it's such a big subject Roy and it's nowhere near limited to professional surfers. Alcohol abuse has brought a few of them undone over the years for sure, but seems to have been a bit worse for surfers who've tried and failed, or who've left the field of battle and don't know what to do with their feelings. Or who have a familial history of alcohol abuse, which reaches well beyond competitive surfing. A surfer heading into his or her prime, with sufficient reserves of hunger and drive, will easily reach past any such temptations and maybe turn it into a lifelong commitment the way Kelly has.

[rmb]

How about the Mad Huey's Nick some of those could possibly be seen as aspiring pro's who once they didn't make it marketed themselves as reckless fun loving beer drinking surfer's/fisherman who love a beer. Marketed themselves very well to create an option to make money.

[Nick Carroll]

Well, how about 'em?

I dunno, it's lifestyle marketing. San Clemente has Donavon Frankenreiter, North County San Diego has Rob Machado, the Goldie has the Mad Hueys. Unlike the first two, they haven't turned a major buck yet; also unlike the first two, they seem to be having a shit load of fun.

It's funny hey, like recently Sean Doherty sent me a copy of the book about Captain Goodvibes that he recently published with Tony Edwards, reading it I thought what a strong vein it is that Tony mined, the bogan superhero with an unexpectedly sharp wit, so Australian. The Hueys are like that but kind of without the sharp wit.