JBay.

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booradley
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Re: JBay.

Post by booradley » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:32 pm

rmb wrote:
swvic wrote:
rmb wrote:but you don't see this smiling crap after big losses in other sports
'spose you've never watched AFL. Happens all the time
You are right there, if you get a chance to listen to the likes of Wayne Carey speak on this subject they wouldn't have it in their former teams.
Totally disagree. Just because someone doesn't have a dummy spit or sit around grinding their teeth after a loss, doesn't mean they aren't feeling it. It shows a hell of a lot more character to put a smile on your face and congratulate your opponent. As for looking at Wayne Carey for inspiration :-?

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DucksNuts
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Re: JBay.

Post by DucksNuts » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:55 pm

LPJ wrote:How would rosy respond to that ideally?
You guys aren't happy unless you're fcuking cnuts. AmIrightguys?

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Re: JBay.

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:57 pm

rmb wrote:Taking nothing away from Mick Fanning he is a great surfer and deserved to win but it would be great to have Parko comment something along the lines pre or during the event that "even though he is mates with Mick that he is fed up with coming up second best to him lately and that he desperately wants to smash him every event from now on" or have Taj say "I don't give a fcuk if the waves are pumping im stoked to be in the next heat because I want to smash every cnut" and have Medina say "Kelly Slater and those Aussies are old cnuts they can fcuk off its our turn".
I know what you mean rmb but I don't know if you can confect those sorts of rivalries

The last bombshell rivalry in surfing was Kelly and AI and I tell ya what, it was real as fcuken real. Two massive powerhouse sporting egos smashing away at each other. It was odd, the media reaction at the time, a fair bit of the US media in particular didn't want to know about it, they wanted to pretend everything was nice and sunny and we were all friends playing guitars together etc just like in the rosy days of the New School when all the guys were too scared to step up against Kelly.

Other people couldn't stand the fire and tried to paint it like Good vs Evil, or some such absolute nonsense. But man, it spiked pro surfing like nothing had for years.

Little rivalries have flared and died down since then...I guess you just don't get that shit too often. You can't act it, though you might play it up a bit, there's gotta be genuine gnar present or it comes off as fake.

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Re: JBay.

Post by rmb » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:41 pm

No doubt they cannot act it and you can't knock the sportsmanship exhibited on tour unfortunately it makes for less entertaining viewing especially when there is long waits due to no ski assist.

Once it comes to the pointy end of the title race it is more compelling but the sport needs rivalry whether its between nations in a restructured scoring system to complement the individual CT rankings or the surfers need to have more cnut in them and hate their opponents at least while competing.

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Re: JBay.

Post by steve shearer » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:51 pm

I bore witness to the dying embers of that rivalry. It ended emphatically with the total and crushing defeat of AI.

Some heats you could see the total and abject humiliation being inflicted by Kelly on Andy. No mercy. Those last couple of years were brutal. They didn't make it into any videos and they weren't written about much by the surf media, didn't fit any of the convenient narrative templates.
No doubt Andy's drug use played a role.......any rational observant person could see he was spiralling downwards and the obvious reason: drug use, was being consistently and systematically ignored by the surf media or denied in some bizarre effort to "protect" Andy.

What was really being protected though was the relationship with one of the surf media's main sources of advertising revenue, ie Billabong.

Were lessons learned ? Not sure. I didn't see one surf writer of the time do a skerrick of self reflection and maybe admit they got it wrong.
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Re: JBay.

Post by Beanpole » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:02 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
rmb wrote:Taking nothing away from Mick Fanning he is a great surfer and deserved to win but it would be great to have Parko comment something along the lines pre or during the event that "even though he is mates with Mick that he is fed up with coming up second best to him lately and that he desperately wants to smash him every event from now on" or have Taj say "I don't give a fcuk if the waves are pumping im stoked to be in the next heat because I want to smash every cnut" and have Medina say "Kelly Slater and those Aussies are old cnuts they can fcuk off its our turn".
I know what you mean rmb but I don't know if you can confect those sorts of rivalries

The last bombshell rivalry in surfing was Kelly and AI and I tell ya what, it was real as fcuken real. Two massive powerhouse sporting egos smashing away at each other. It was odd, the media reaction at the time, a fair bit of the US media in particular didn't want to know about it, they wanted to pretend everything was nice and sunny and we were all friends playing guitars together etc just like in the rosy days of the New School when all the guys were too scared to step up against Kelly.

Other people couldn't stand the fire and tried to paint it like Good vs Evil, or some such absolute nonsense. But man, it spiked pro surfing like nothing had for years.

Little rivalries have flared and died down since then...I guess you just don't get that shit too often. You can't act it, though you might play it up a bit, there's gotta be genuine gnar present or it comes off as fake.
Growing up just South of the Gold Coast the PT vs MP rivalry basically split the town for quite a few years.
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Re: JBay.

Post by Beerfan » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:18 pm

steve shearer wrote:I bore witness to the dying embers of that rivalry. It ended emphatically with the total and crushing defeat of AI.

Some heats you could see the total and abject humiliation being inflicted by Kelly on Andy. No mercy. Those last couple of years were brutal. They didn't make it into any videos and they weren't written about much by the surf media, didn't fit any of the convenient narrative templates.
No doubt Andy's drug use played a role.......any rational observant person could see he was spiralling downwards and the obvious reason: drug use, was being consistently and systematically ignored by the surf media or denied in some bizarre effort to "protect" Andy.

What was really being protected though was the relationship with one of the surf media's main sources of advertising revenue, ie Billabong.

Were lessons learned ? Not sure. I didn't see one surf writer of the time do a skerrick of self reflection and maybe admit they got it wrong.
The surf media killed Andy, is that what you're saying Steve? Again?

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Re: JBay.

Post by rmb » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:34 pm

How did it all pan out Beanpole?

The whole AI and the surf media not reporting his drug problems due to sponsorship and whether it had any impact on his eventual passing is always going to be subject to opinion.

If AI wanted to speak about his issues and was muzzled by sponsorship preventing the story from coming to air that becomes a question on the ethics of his sponsor.

As a writer Steve if you were aware of a current or former pro in the lime light using drugs would you hesitate to report it?

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Re: JBay.

Post by rmb » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:02 pm

The ASP should be rewarding Flores for his meltdown and in the future install some cameras in the judges booth so we can watch if there is any reoccurrence which there wont be, due to the ASP heavy-handed approach to criticism.

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Re: JBay.

Post by steve shearer » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:44 am

Beerfan wrote:
steve shearer wrote:I bore witness to the dying embers of that rivalry. It ended emphatically with the total and crushing defeat of AI.

Some heats you could see the total and abject humiliation being inflicted by Kelly on Andy. No mercy. Those last couple of years were brutal. They didn't make it into any videos and they weren't written about much by the surf media, didn't fit any of the convenient narrative templates.
No doubt Andy's drug use played a role.......any rational observant person could see he was spiralling downwards and the obvious reason: drug use, was being consistently and systematically ignored by the surf media or denied in some bizarre effort to "protect" Andy.

What was really being protected though was the relationship with one of the surf media's main sources of advertising revenue, ie Billabong.

Were lessons learned ? Not sure. I didn't see one surf writer of the time do a skerrick of self reflection and maybe admit they got it wrong.
The surf media killed Andy, is that what you're saying Steve? Again?
Fcuk Beery, I believe you have basic comprehension skills. Try again.

A blind eye was turned. That's already been well established.

This guy was no chump. It was a three time world champ. Bong's main man, a bloke making them millions in board short sales. There was a hell of a lot to lose if his image was suddenly and irrevocably shattered. And so we got the euphemisms : "oh he's burnt out on competing" , "he's been partying a bit hard and needs some time off" etc etc etc

Surely now, a few years after the event we can debate the merits or otherwise of that decision?

Mate, if it wasn't for the ferocious, fearless reporting and investigating of a few journos Lance Armstrong would still be standing on the podium claiming Tour De Frances and saying he was clean.

You understand the role of journalists? They are supposed to go behind the public relations spin and corporate interests and report the truth, not be fcuking agents for disseminating corpo marketing BS.

The magazines are too beholden to the corporate advertisers, the journalists too close and chummy with the athletes they are supposed to be reporting on....it's just simply not possible for such conflicting and entwined interests to deal with a situation like AI. They'll wish him the best, pretend they are acting in his best interests and turn away.

Would AI still be alive today if that had happened? No possible way of saying. But the massive shake-up and testing regime could have come in a lot earlier than it did.

I didn't and have never said the surf media killed AI. Thats a ridiculous position to take.
But AI's death revealed systemic failure in the surf media to do anything like it's real job.
Has anything been learnt should be the question asked now.

Tbh, and I know everyone here has had an absolute gutful of my take on this, so don't worry we'll go back to lovey dovey pally wally in a minute, I doubt it. In fact quite the opposite.

In all the hand wringing washups after the event the surf media poked around everywhere except in it's own backyard. They looked at managers, surf companies (ever so gently, hey they had careers to protect).....I don't think one outlet thought: hey we're the media, wasn't it our job to report what was happening? We knew the guy was spiralling down the plug-hole for years and it's not as if he was the only high profile surfer to get enmeshed in a bad drug addiction.
Most surfers who slid off the rails and lost sponsorship could be quietly and efficiently disappeared by the surf media, a shameful situation in itself, ala Shane Herring and Nathan Hedge.

Now, we have Surfing Australia building it's own media network, the ASP generating its own content. And journalists working for same. That makes the problem worse, not better.
The question: Can an organization report impartially on itself and it's activities? has been answered via direct evidence over a long period in an emphatic NO. Of course they can't. They'll always act in their own self interest, not the public interest.
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Re: JBay.

Post by steve shearer » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:27 am

rmb wrote:
As a writer Steve if you were aware of a current or former pro in the lime light using drugs would you hesitate to report it?
If he was using rec drugs in his own time and not hurting or harming anyone else, probably not. But if there was a serious problem occurring then I'd love to think I wouldn't hesitate. Would it be in the public interest? Would it be in the surfer's long term interest. You'd be a blockhead if you didn't stop and consider the ethical implications.

After AI died I knew straightaway the official line being peddled was pure BS. I pitched around to go over there and report and got zero interest. Most media already had there reporters there covering the comp.

So I crawled back in my hole and threw rocks from the sideline, which I continue to do, as ineffectually and impotently as a Gazan youth throwing rocks at an advancing Israeli tank regiment.
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Re: JBay.

Post by Beerfan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:04 am

steve shearer wrote:
Beerfan wrote:
steve shearer wrote:I bore witness to the dying embers of that rivalry. It ended emphatically with the total and crushing defeat of AI.

Some heats you could see the total and abject humiliation being inflicted by Kelly on Andy. No mercy. Those last couple of years were brutal. They didn't make it into any videos and they weren't written about much by the surf media, didn't fit any of the convenient narrative templates.
No doubt Andy's drug use played a role.......any rational observant person could see he was spiralling downwards and the obvious reason: drug use, was being consistently and systematically ignored by the surf media or denied in some bizarre effort to "protect" Andy.

What was really being protected though was the relationship with one of the surf media's main sources of advertising revenue, ie Billabong.

Were lessons learned ? Not sure. I didn't see one surf writer of the time do a skerrick of self reflection and maybe admit they got it wrong.
The surf media killed Andy, is that what you're saying Steve? Again?
Fcuk Beery, I believe you have basic comprehension skills. Try again.

A blind eye was turned. That's already been well established.

This guy was no chump. It was a three time world champ. Bong's main man, a bloke making them millions in board short sales. There was a hell of a lot to lose if his image was suddenly and irrevocably shattered. And so we got the euphemisms : "oh he's burnt out on competing" , "he's been partying a bit hard and needs some time off" etc etc etc

Surely now, a few years after the event we can debate the merits or otherwise of that decision?

Mate, if it wasn't for the ferocious, fearless reporting and investigating of a few journos Lance Armstrong would still be standing on the podium claiming Tour De Frances and saying he was clean.

You understand the role of journalists? They are supposed to go behind the public relations spin and corporate interests and report the truth, not be fcuking agents for disseminating corpo marketing BS.

The magazines are too beholden to the corporate advertisers, the journalists too close and chummy with the athletes they are supposed to be reporting on....it's just simply not possible for such conflicting and entwined interests to deal with a situation like AI. They'll wish him the best, pretend they are acting in his best interests and turn away.

Would AI still be alive today if that had happened? No possible way of saying. But the massive shake-up and testing regime could have come in a lot earlier than it did.

I didn't and have never said the surf media killed AI. Thats a ridiculous position to take.
But AI's death revealed systemic failure in the surf media to do anything like it's real job.
Has anything been learnt should be the question asked now.

Tbh, and I know everyone here has had an absolute gutful of my take on this, so don't worry we'll go back to lovey dovey pally wally in a minute, I doubt it. In fact quite the opposite.

In all the hand wringing washups after the event the surf media poked around everywhere except in it's own backyard. They looked at managers, surf companies (ever so gently, hey they had careers to protect).....I don't think one outlet thought: hey we're the media, wasn't it our job to report what was happening? We knew the guy was spiralling down the plug-hole for years and it's not as if he was the only high profile surfer to get enmeshed in a bad drug addiction.
Most surfers who slid off the rails and lost sponsorship could be quietly and efficiently disappeared by the surf media, a shameful situation in itself, ala Shane Herring and Nathan Hedge.

Now, we have Surfing Australia building it's own media network, the ASP generating its own content. And journalists working for same. That makes the problem worse, not better.
The question: Can an organization report impartially on itself and it's activities? has been answered via direct evidence over a long period in an emphatic NO. Of course they can't. They'll always act in their own self interest, not the public interest.
Fair call Steve. And it is probably the same in a lot of professional sports. Keep it "in house" to protect the sport/brand etc. You would think though, a serious drug problem would be enough for someone to speak up.

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Re: JBay.

Post by Davros » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:22 am

Covering up Irons tracks didnt do Billibong any good, maybe the best they could of done was cut him lose a few yearlier, theres nothing like being broke to focus the mind. For major share holders and board members these guys are products or at best mannequins wearing board shorts, there is no emotion, its bottom line and thats business.

Side note: Have you noticed how all the young fellas chat and laugh after an NRL game, different to back in the day, but all these guys do as professionals is train and play footy and spend time socalising with other footy players, maybe because pro sports is now so all consuming they are just pro's doing a job and the hate factor involved in the winning ethos has faded a bit. Pro surfing might be the same, they are just people after all..."why cant we just get along" (Rodney KIng, 1992)
Last edited by Davros on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JBay.

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:33 am

Tis a good point. It makes total sense.

I mean, what is the point of pro surfing? Yes, it was initially to pave the way for surfing to be considered a legitimate professional sport worthy of respect. That was achieved long ago.

Now, what is the point of pro surfing? Initially it was backed by the major surfwear brands, therefore its point is to make money. How else could they afford to pay athletes $100k per event? The star system it creates makes young kids idealize the pro surfers. It drives the desire to want to associate with them by wearing the same clothes and aspiring to their image. This makes bizillions of dollars for the big labels. It has also turned the major surfing populous into sheep who all think high performace shortboarding is the only important way to surf.

Magazines make their main money from adspace. The adspace is paid for by the big labels. Journalise are actually paid by the big surf labels. They will only pay for what they wait to be printed. The idealizing and glaomoring of pro surfers. Not what is actually happening in the surfing world.

Then, there are the rest of us who surf for countless reasons, but mostly just go get salty and feel good. No idealizing teenager wants to read about that.
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Re: JBay.

Post by Finn » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:03 am

Sports Marketing, PR , Player Managers......all work for the common goal of promoting a athlete and increasing their positive exposure in the hope of a massive kicker in associated product awareness and revenue.

Same in all sports.....cant imagine the global golf media were not aware Tiger was a mad rooter, but the might of Nike would have kept that out of print, our own Thorpey has had management company after management company peddle the lady's man stories and push media to promote this side. No main stream sponsor wanted the real stories out for commercial reasons.

The difference with AI, and a long path of others in surfing, is that drugs are obviously a life threatening path as opposed to Tiger and Thorpey's chosen pursuits who had no life threatening nature about them.

Perhaps if AI were going thru these same issues in 2014, it might be different, though I suspect it would be more from the use of social media, and Joe Public outing his rampant drug use and vulnerability and alerting the world virally, rather then the guys who cant bite the hand that feeds in magazine land.

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Re: JBay.

Post by booradley » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:59 am

Just quietly,
I think Flores has torn the manky bandaid of what we've all known for a while and that is the increasing ire raised by the antcis of D'souza and Medina in the pursuit of the crown. If rmb wants "knuckle" then I don't think it's far away. Especially if Medina keeps getting "pushed" for his claims and close calls continue to evade the "sponsorally challenged".

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Re: JBay.

Post by Yuke Hunt » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:08 am

Its not the first time that Flores has been guilty of carrying on like a pork chop. He's even pulled the racist card after one close loss a couple of year back. This suspension will more than likely styme his attempt to requalify for 2015.

Surfers should be suspended for constantly claiming waves, especially when the ride is only in the medium range. Did you here that Gabriel ?
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Re: JBay.

Post by foamy » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:51 pm

JBay.

For me, the pleasures of surfing don't get much better than moments like this.

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