Politics of Alpha Males and Dropping In

[porca]

If Im at my local and there are nons there i paddle straight to the inside, if there are other guys there that i know, I share. If I go to a beach other than my local i dont paddle inside everyone! I wait my turn.
At my local there is a mal who lives local, he paddles straight to the inside everytime, so I burn him when he gets too many.

[macca202]

There's usually more than one wave in a set. Surfer A should probably know that by now.

exactly. yesterday morn for example. i was next to another guy and a nice wave came, so he hustled his way into position and paddled hard to catch the wave. Concequently, he couldn't get on the wave and as he turned around he saw me taking off on a wave twice as good in the same position he was in before. He was swearing at himself too
Also with dropping, snaking etc, when i was paddling out the back for the first time and happened to arrive just in the spot where a set wave was peaking, i was on the inside in perfect position for a drop. Problem was there was a another guy 10 meters to the outside who had been padling about 10 meters already to catch this wave. That would have been unfair to snake him IMO.

[booter]

Surfer A is sitting waiting. Another bloke (Surfer B) - fitter, younger -paddles out past A and sits in prime position where take off is vertical. Younger bloke takes off on the best set wave. Other bloke decides not to drop in. This happens twice and then on third time A decides it will happen all day if he lets it, so he drops in on B

Of course B is outraged and screams and shouts. B does not understand that A cannot take off in the spot B is taking off but he still wants to ride some waves and will get none if B just keeps doing what he is doing.

Is A justified in any way or must he succumb to the unwritten law of the jungle? Does he have a right to challenge the validity of that law which seems to favour strength and physical superiority over a sharing philiosophy?

I am thinking that surfer B can get stuffed.

Easy. If A is a local and so is B then B should know to respect his elders. If B is a blow in then A should beat shitout of him. If B is a local and A is a blow in then unless A steps it up and takes off a bit deeper then he is doomed to catch nothing.

[munch]

[i was on the inside in perfect position for a drop. Problem was there was a another guy 10 meters to the outside who had been padling about 10 meters already to catch this wave. That would have been unfair to snake him IMO.

Good on ya Macca, I'm used to lids snaking as much as possible, even to the point where they paddle in front of me expecting me to stop cause I'll ding my board running over them - and I usually do, well at least once

[booter]

Another good one is as follows:

My mate is paddling for a wave but there is a bloke on the inside of him.

I am paddling out.

I paddle directly in front of bloke on the inside of my mate.

My mate is now on the inside.

It can be war out there people. Leant to fight smart.

[macca202]

Another good one is as follows:

My mate is paddling for a wave but there is a bloke on the inside of him.

I am paddling out.

I paddle directly in front of bloke on the inside of my mate.

My mate is now on the inside.

It can be war out there people. Leant to fight smart.

thats where the 'eat shit' rule applies. You the person paddling out, should avoid the surfer by paddling to his inside, even if it means copping a lip to your head. Yesterday a similar thing happened in a small shorey. I was paddling out and a surfer about 10 meters in front of me, and a few meters to my right (so i was in his line) was taking off. I knew that if he kept going, he was gonna go in exactly my direction. I'd been out for 4 1/2 hours and must have done a lazy duckdive (or mistimed), cos as i was about to come up, i thought the surfer was way gone, but i felt a sudden smack, as one of his fins (i think) cut through my scalp. It seemed to happen in slow motion cos i could swear for a whole second that i had this fin grinding along my skull. I was on a lid so in hindsight i should have bailed, but also the surfer should have made a better attempt. He did appolagise, but he said he tried to jump over me or something, i couldn't really work it out.
10 stitches later.

[Laurie McGinness]

Laurie, you are saying the scenario aint realistic -surfers c-z are out there too -just because they are not mentioned does not mean they are not there. Invisibility doesa not mean total omission

Sorry filthbarrel but it doesn't make sense to me if there are a lot of people out there. Is surfer B getting all the waves? Hard to imagine. If not then presumably surfer A is not the only one getting inside him which weakens his case and changes the whole situation.

Reading some of the other posts is interesting. Personally I think it's too hard to generalise about who should do what when the reality is so fluid and complicated. I know a lot of people don't like this approach but in crowded surf I think you have to treat it like a game. The object is to catch waves, sometimes you do well, sometimes you do badly. Like any game there is a psychological side as well as a tactical or skill based side. Some psychological tactics such as blatant intimidation are unfair but I'm not sure that the same is true on the skill based side.

One of the things I have always liked about sufing is the dog eat dog side of it. If you try to take that away and create some sort of perfectly "fair" environment I think surfing woulkd lose something that has been quite central to its development. Most of us can probably look back at times, particularly early in our surfing careers, when we were down at the bottom of the local totem pole and were left in no doubt about it by those higher up. For me, and I suspect a lot of others, that was an enormous spur to improvement. I don't know if it would have had the same effect if they had just let me take my turn.

[oldman]

If you aren't the alpha male out there you had better be smarter than the alpha male.

Thankfully that isn't that hard, as the alpha male usually has a close intellectual resemblance to a simian, and will always fight force with force.

If you are B and you just accept it you really should paddle in. On the other hand, how do you get good at taking off deeper unless you try? B should get off his arse and compete and he might just make it and get better as a result.

As for A bitching about being dropped in on after paddling around another fellow twice, well, that's probably what you should expect. I'm not sure you have much of a case for bitching.

[Beanpole]

Don't expect much respect if you don't give any.
Here is another situation I have seen in the water. Old mal rider makes a point of paddling as far away from the pack as he possibly can. I am not talking here about just sitting a bit outside of everyone. I am talking about a long way further out in another section of the break. He hooks onto a wave way outside of the regular break and rides it till it eventually connects with the reform the pack is surfing. He then takes the ride through that section and paddles back out. A self styled spokesman politely or otherwise informs him he is not supposed to do that. Whats the difference? :?
Where I grew up there was an express rip and the usual pecking order relied completely on who was the most determined, fit or/or lucky to hook onto one before disappearing down the line. It evened things out
If you wanted to make sure your mate who you went to primary school with or who you smoked cones with got the waves you missed, good luck.

Is it actually necessary to not just take priority but hassle a non local so much they can never get a wave in reasonably uncrowded surf?
I'm no saint
I have pulled all sorts of stunts over the years to get a wave but I'm not stupid enough to be proud of it.

[snakes]

Oldman knows what time it is

snakes

[james]

i dunno how 2 do the quote thingy but anyways

booter

Easy. If A is a local and so is B then B should know to respect his elders. If B is a blow in then A should beat shitout of him. If B is a local and A is a blow in then unless A steps it up and takes off a bit deeper then he is doomed to catch nothing.

thats just stupid because if B "respects" his elders and sits on the outside of him there is just gonna be unridden pits coming through and if u cant take off where its steepest and the best well your time has ended and sit back and get the scraps...

[Butts]

My first post, joined yesterday, although have been following the posts for a while.
You all seem to be Surfer B.
I'd like to comment that I am Surfer A, except that I would never intentionally drop in on Surfer B. My preference is to persist, catch the wave of any set that Surfer B leaves or is not present. Sometimes, albeit rarely, Surfer B will actually let Surfer A take a wave, this generally will only happen when crowd is minimal and Surfer B has had his share.

I understand that I am learning, I am more than willing to pay my dues.
Must admit though, I have been very lucky where I surf, most of the same faces appearing time and time again. So maybe sometimes their impressed with my persistence or they feel sorry for me.

Yes I am an Old Fart. Started surfing 25 years too late, but enjoying every single minute of it.

[Beanpole]

The other thing about the old alpha male personality issue is whether this just happens because one surfer is dominant because of ability or that some personalities just want to dominate anything regardless of ability.

Your classic alpha is a goal oriented control freak who will try to control any situation they find themselves in. They may be trying to run Saturday Sport, Clubbies, the local mal club, the local chook raffle, a multimillion dollar company or the peak at your local break. They must take charge They can be very useful or very dangerous depending on where your standing and their actual ability.
If they are thwarted they will find some other situation or activity.
One of the good things about surfing is that some very different attitudes are presented from time to time by surfers who don't act like dominating pricks just because they think they can.