At the risk of sounding like a tree hugger, I was wondering if anybody had any feedback on eco-friendly wetsuits.
I also do not want to support Quickripabong, due to ethical issues that are too involved and unnecessary to regurgitate here, again.
I have checked out the Patagonia line, made from limestone, recycled plastics etc; and not petroleum-based. But it is only available in US. It may be worth ordering, although expensive. (thanks to the AUS dollar though ... possible). I really should try to put my money where my mouth is. Across the board this looks like a good company (even though they sponsor a Malloy) with their 1% profit to some good causes, and their focus on ethical/environmentally based production in all facets of their company. A good product too with long warranty.
There is also the Body Glove alternative - the eco wetsuit. But it is a one-off line and the rest of their operation is dubious and not in line with the ethos they are selling for this particular product. A "greenwash" for the rest of their operation?
The prob. is I would have to fly the patagonia wetty here. Hence, probably null and voiding my aims ... fnck it. Although, the wetsuits are made for durability and can last a number of years. Unlike my other ones which tend to fall apart each year.
Maybe I should just paddle out in a woollen jumper, like Laz and the boys used too.
(I know this is a middle-class privilege to be able to have this concern and choice; but I still think it is worthy of trying to sort out. Better to have a go, and all that, well, maybe?)
Just trying to better my consumption habits ...
Advice?
Eco/Ethical Wetsuits for Winter
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Freshie Boy
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admirable sentiments i reckon cliff, but like you say: the big problem is patagonia don't export and i think they don't be because they recognise that would void the attempts to be green. still, if you are over there on holiday anyway...
a few other people make suits out of yamamoto neoprene which is the limestone based rubber, so if avoiding oil use is your main concern they may be worth looking into? there is a list here:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11 ... neopre.php
Shops in aus stock 9+ suits, not sure about the others.
a few other people make suits out of yamamoto neoprene which is the limestone based rubber, so if avoiding oil use is your main concern they may be worth looking into? there is a list here:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11 ... neopre.php
Shops in aus stock 9+ suits, not sure about the others.
Re: Eco/Ethical Wetsuits for Winter
Probably better off quitting surfing for the winter Clif.
Not too sure about this quote...
As for Patagonia: there was a similar thread on here a while ago and ol' Lovenutz (he of Noth Bondi) was singing the praises of Patagonia. Not sure if it was cos he had one or wanted one. Perhaps he'll tune into this thread.
Thumbs up for the sentiment though.
Not too sure about this quote...
All wetsuits are made overseas and flown here so have similar carbon miles.Clif wrote:The prob. is I would have to fly the patagonia wetty here. Hence, probably null and voiding my aims ... fnck it.
As for Patagonia: there was a similar thread on here a while ago and ol' Lovenutz (he of Noth Bondi) was singing the praises of Patagonia. Not sure if it was cos he had one or wanted one. Perhaps he'll tune into this thread.
Thumbs up for the sentiment though.
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LONGINUS
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Pretty sure I read an advertisement from West Suits recently that was showcasing their use of limestone based versus petroleum based neoprene. I always used Westsuits when based in Perth but find the range that reaches the east coast a little limited to be honest.
Worth hunting one down IMO, Australian made SME product to boot!
Worth hunting one down IMO, Australian made SME product to boot!
*sigh*
just called bondi surfworld, and asked about westsuits, cause they rse close to work and stock them, and I thought they may be made of yamamoto wetsuits.
The seppo chick had no idea what I was on "ummm ... der ... like slickskin"
Go get the manager
"nah, no-one makes them mate"
"BS. what about nine plus, matuse, Patagonia, etc ... and I heard West suits"
"nah, they are not 'surfing companies'"
At which point I realised the folly of my ways, and promptly hung up.
*sigh*
industry
brick wall
head
= me stupid for even asking
just called bondi surfworld, and asked about westsuits, cause they rse close to work and stock them, and I thought they may be made of yamamoto wetsuits.
The seppo chick had no idea what I was on "ummm ... der ... like slickskin"
Go get the manager
"nah, no-one makes them mate"
"BS. what about nine plus, matuse, Patagonia, etc ... and I heard West suits"
"nah, they are not 'surfing companies'"
At which point I realised the folly of my ways, and promptly hung up.
*sigh*
industry
brick wall
head
= me stupid for even asking
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PeepeelaPew
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Re: Eco/Ethical Wetsuits for Winter
[quote="Clif"]At the risk of sounding like a tree hugger, I was wondering if anybody had any feedback on eco-friendly wetsuits.
Could be a whole new market for Ansell?
Could be a whole new market for Ansell?
Re: Eco/Ethical Wetsuits for Winter
Very worthwhile investigation Clif - and, since the emerging global problem is billions of 'middle-class' consumers desiring 'privileged' products, I don't think you should feel any pang of conscience about being a person in a position to think a bit before throwing the coin at a 'privileged' surfing product. The more middle class consumers have a think first, the better. Made me think.Clif wrote:At the risk of sounding like
(I know this is a middle-class privilege to be able to have this concern and choice; but I still think it is worthy of trying to sort out. Better to have a go, and all that, well, maybe?)
Just trying to better my consumption habits ...
Advice?
Yamamoto Rubber:
Limestone yamamoto rubber is not petroleum based (a product that has caused untold grief, war, loss etc. While limestone hasn't, as far as I know).The rubber is non-toxic, unlike petroleum-based neoprene. Severe energy required to produce yamamoto rubber, as much as petroleum neoprene. Is stretchier and lighter and warmer - by far. So gets a performance tick. They are also very durable, reducing re-consumption and landfill.
It seems Matuse are quite good, and get rave reviews. They last. Ink, glueing and zips are not enviro. US only, have to ship individually,
Body-glove eco suit - OK reviews - but seems like a green wash pure and simple if you look at the rest of their range.
Patagucci continues to stack up well, as a company. Also as a suit, although they get heavy due to the added wool. Good corporate ethics throughout the whole company. All products ethically/enviro sound. But pricey. US Only, have to ship individually, equaling high one-on-one carbon emissions.
A case can be made for nine plus, which are now stocked in oz. Shipped in numbers, thereby reducing carbon emissions of shipping individually. And you can try it on, unlike the others where you have to guess what will fit. Nine plus don't have logos everywhere on them - so ink is kept to a minimum. Glue and zips not enviro. Not sure about ethics of co. and enviro. across the whole co. and product range though. They are more affordable.
Limestone yamamoto rubber is not petroleum based (a product that has caused untold grief, war, loss etc. While limestone hasn't, as far as I know).The rubber is non-toxic, unlike petroleum-based neoprene. Severe energy required to produce yamamoto rubber, as much as petroleum neoprene. Is stretchier and lighter and warmer - by far. So gets a performance tick. They are also very durable, reducing re-consumption and landfill.
It seems Matuse are quite good, and get rave reviews. They last. Ink, glueing and zips are not enviro. US only, have to ship individually,
Body-glove eco suit - OK reviews - but seems like a green wash pure and simple if you look at the rest of their range.
Patagucci continues to stack up well, as a company. Also as a suit, although they get heavy due to the added wool. Good corporate ethics throughout the whole company. All products ethically/enviro sound. But pricey. US Only, have to ship individually, equaling high one-on-one carbon emissions.
A case can be made for nine plus, which are now stocked in oz. Shipped in numbers, thereby reducing carbon emissions of shipping individually. And you can try it on, unlike the others where you have to guess what will fit. Nine plus don't have logos everywhere on them - so ink is kept to a minimum. Glue and zips not enviro. Not sure about ethics of co. and enviro. across the whole co. and product range though. They are more affordable.
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dUg
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I can confirm that West's 2008 range wetsuits ( Winter and Summer 2007 ) are definitely using Limestone Based Neoprene. Press release and campaign to that effect are pending, I believe.LONGINUS wrote:Pretty sure I read an advertisement from West Suits recently that was showcasing their use of limestone based versus petroleum based neoprene. I always used Westsuits when based in Perth but find the range that reaches the east coast a little limited to be honest.
Worth hunting one down IMO, Australian made SME product to boot!
LONGINUS... if your local store isn't stocking a very good range of West gear, ask them why not... or try another.
There is also a list of stockists in Australia available on the West website. http://www.westsurfing.com
Apologies in advance Mods if the link is a naughty...
Well, following Cliff's research I visited Treehugger.com and read through the comments, PLUS the critical comments added by some fairly knowledgeable types (I thought anyway). And some of those comments re 'limestone' called 'hoax' on the environmental credentials... Greenwash as they say. The process involving limestone (calcium carbonate being the crucial ingedient) has to be utilised through some hefty heating processes ... not so enviro friendly.
So I'm being virtuous and returning to my choc-brown hessian, horse-hair and tar suit that I made last winter. Wear it in the surf; then just unbutton and fold along dotted line, and it becomes a nifty dinner suit guaranteed to have in-laws thinking again about the rissole stew youre serving for winter dinner!
(am taking orders as soon as the patent comes through)
So I'm being virtuous and returning to my choc-brown hessian, horse-hair and tar suit that I made last winter. Wear it in the surf; then just unbutton and fold along dotted line, and it becomes a nifty dinner suit guaranteed to have in-laws thinking again about the rissole stew youre serving for winter dinner!
(am taking orders as soon as the patent comes through)
I did the same, a bit of googling and such.... and I reckon greenwash is not too far from the truth. The claims of better stretch, increased warmth and longer life should be the selling basis of the "geoprene", not some claims that limestone mining is ecologically friendly.
It would appear that Yamamoto's manufacturing process is what is responsible for the enhanced features of geoprene, not some magic ingredient in the limestone.
Copied and pasted this from treehugger.com
-- Chloroprene is the common name for the organic compound 2-chloro-1,3-butadiene, which has the chemical formula CH2=CCl-CH=CH2. This colorless liquid is the monomer for the production of the polymer polychloroprene, a type of synthetic rubber. Polychloroprene is better known to the public as Neoprene, the trade name DuPont gave it when the company first developed it and currently used by DuPont Performance Elastomers.
Until the 1960s, chloroprene production was dominated by the “acetylene process,” which was modeled after the original synthesis of vinyl acetylene.[2] In this process, acetylene is dimerized to give vinyl acetylene, which is then combine with hydrogen chloride to afford in succession vinyl acetylene, 3-chloro-1,2-butadiene, which, finally in the presence of cuprous chloride, rearranges to the targeted 2-chloro-1,3-butadiene.[1] The conversion is shown here:
Main hazards
Highly flammable, toxic.
NFPA 704
-- The principal raw materials for acetylene manufacture are calcium carbonate (limestone) and coal. The calcium carbonate is first converted into calcium oxide and the coal into coke, then the two are reacted with each other to form calcium carbide and carbon monoxide:
-- Calcium carbide is produced industrially in an electric arc furnace loaded with a mixture of lime and coke at approximately 2000 °C. This method has not changed since its invention in 1888:
-- Lime is a general term for various naturally occurring minerals and materials derived from them, in which carbonates, oxides and hydroxides of calcium predominate.
Hardly a green material!
I'm not against limestone based wetsuits, or petroleum based ones either- better than simply putting petroleum in our cars and burning it, IMHO.... make them "green" by making them longer lasting, not by claiming that the procurement of source material is eco friendly. All mining has an impact...
It would appear that Yamamoto's manufacturing process is what is responsible for the enhanced features of geoprene, not some magic ingredient in the limestone.
Copied and pasted this from treehugger.com
-- Chloroprene is the common name for the organic compound 2-chloro-1,3-butadiene, which has the chemical formula CH2=CCl-CH=CH2. This colorless liquid is the monomer for the production of the polymer polychloroprene, a type of synthetic rubber. Polychloroprene is better known to the public as Neoprene, the trade name DuPont gave it when the company first developed it and currently used by DuPont Performance Elastomers.
Until the 1960s, chloroprene production was dominated by the “acetylene process,” which was modeled after the original synthesis of vinyl acetylene.[2] In this process, acetylene is dimerized to give vinyl acetylene, which is then combine with hydrogen chloride to afford in succession vinyl acetylene, 3-chloro-1,2-butadiene, which, finally in the presence of cuprous chloride, rearranges to the targeted 2-chloro-1,3-butadiene.[1] The conversion is shown here:
Main hazards
Highly flammable, toxic.
NFPA 704
-- The principal raw materials for acetylene manufacture are calcium carbonate (limestone) and coal. The calcium carbonate is first converted into calcium oxide and the coal into coke, then the two are reacted with each other to form calcium carbide and carbon monoxide:
-- Calcium carbide is produced industrially in an electric arc furnace loaded with a mixture of lime and coke at approximately 2000 °C. This method has not changed since its invention in 1888:
-- Lime is a general term for various naturally occurring minerals and materials derived from them, in which carbonates, oxides and hydroxides of calcium predominate.
Hardly a green material!
I'm not against limestone based wetsuits, or petroleum based ones either- better than simply putting petroleum in our cars and burning it, IMHO.... make them "green" by making them longer lasting, not by claiming that the procurement of source material is eco friendly. All mining has an impact...
Ta Bookster
Think the advice to just try to make our wetties(and even boards) last longer before buying anew is pretty good. I can remember a long interview with a Green tech person (On ABC AM radio - sorry no details) who stressed that demanding less new stuff, and in particular holding on to our expensive/complicated items for longer is one of the very best things we can do: production processes suck so much energy and materials.
Think the advice to just try to make our wetties(and even boards) last longer before buying anew is pretty good. I can remember a long interview with a Green tech person (On ABC AM radio - sorry no details) who stressed that demanding less new stuff, and in particular holding on to our expensive/complicated items for longer is one of the very best things we can do: production processes suck so much energy and materials.
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