Displacement hull boards

[Roy_Stewart]

THERE IN ITSELF SHOWS WHY NAVAL A IS NOT THE DEFINITIVE FOR SURFBOARDS

Yeah, because surfboard makers like to talk a lot of definitive BS.

I think that your best bet is to call them 'hulls' because no one ca argue with that.

THANK GOD WE CAN AGREE ON THAT

Yup but they are NOT displacement hulls, they even have way less deadrise than most planing hulls !

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[huie]

ok roy lets try another way so the guy that asked the q gets a a beter handle on it

displacement hull as fully understood by the layman designed to take great payloads
of course this hull couldnot gain speed to get out of its own way so to speak.
look at w/l beam.

[huie]

THERE IN ITSELF SHOWS WHY NAVAL A IS NOT THE DEFINITIVE FOR SURFBOARDS

Yeah, because surfboard makers like to talk a lot of definitive BS
I CAN SAY THAT THAT IS TRUE

I think that your best bet is to call them 'hulls' because no one ca argue with that.

THANK GOD WE CAN AGREE ON THAT

Yup but they are NOT displacement hulls, they even have way less deadrise than most planing hulls !
DEFINE DEADRISE ON A SURFBOARD WE CAN ONLY WORK OF A BASE LINE THERE IS NO KEEL

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[huie]

SO ROY lets go BACK

WE TAKE THE HP SURFBOARD BEING POWERED BY THE 70KG GUY
WHAT HP WOULD HE BE PRODUCING TO MAKE HEADWAY
HIS SPEED AHEAD WOULD BE VERY MUCH DISPLACEMENT
YET WHEN HE TAKES OFF DOWN THE MINESHAFT
THIS LITTLE CRAFT DOES ACTUALY PLANE AND REACH PEAK PERFORMANCE AAS IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO IF THE SHAPER WAS TO LISTEN TO N/A HE WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT IT TO WHAT IT IS

IN MY OPINION

THE STUFF OFF LINDSY LORD BEING PREACHED
IS BIENG TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND IS SELF SERVING FOR A PARTICULAR GROUP.

HERES ANOTHER THING THAT THROWS A SPANNER IN THE WORKS

IN A RECENT EXCHANG OF E MAILS WITH DEREK HYND

THIS IS A QUOTE HE MADE

Any words from you will be gratefully received.
As an aside, I got to a handle a 5 foot alaia from the late 19th Century that contained vee in the nose, bevel edges, and 1" concave through the guts.
Those guys must've been ripping back then.
All the best Trevor(and Aloha from Jack),
Derek.











CHEERS HUIE

[Roy_Stewart]

SO ROY lets go BACK

WE TAKE THE HP SURFBOARD BEING POWERED BY THE 70KG GUY
WHAT HP WOULD HE BE PRODUCING TO MAKE HEADWAY
HIS SPEED AHEAD WOULD BE VERY MUCH DISPLACEMENT

When paddling yes, although some planing lift is still produced by the submerged board.

YET WHEN HE TAKES OFF DOWN THE MINESHAFT
THIS LITTLE CRAFT DOES ACTUALY PLANE AND REACH PEAK PERFORMANCE AAS IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO IF THE SHAPER WAS TO LISTEN TO N/A HE WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT IT TO WHAT IT IS

IN MY OPINION

THE STUFF OFF LINDSY LORD BEING PREACHED
IS BIENG TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND IS SELF SERVING FOR A PARTICULAR GROUP.

I totally agree.

They make out that the planing hull theory is something unique to Simmons but it applies to every board.

They also make a lot of incorrect assumptions when applying the theory, some due to the fact that surfboards are not planing on horizontal flat water all the time, and are not turned via a rudder !

HERES ANOTHER THING THAT THROWS A SPANNER IN THE WORKS

IN A RECENT EXCHANG OF E MAILS WITH DEREK HYND

THIS IS A QUOTE HE MADE

Any words from you will be gratefully received.
As an aside, I got to a handle a 5 foot alaia from the late 19th Century that contained vee in the nose, bevel edges, and 1" concave through the guts.
Those guys must've been ripping back then.
All the best Trevor(and Aloha from Jack),
Derek.

So what do you like about vee and roll ?

I haven't been all that keen on it over the years and had a hard time riding the plastic fantastic, wasn't too stoked on singlefin shortboards with tail vee either, I'd rather pull the tail in .

.

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CHEERS HUIE[/quote]

[huie]

HERES ANOTHER THING THAT THROWS A SPANNER IN THE WORKS

IN A RECENT EXCHANG OF E MAILS WITH DEREK HYND

THIS IS A QUOTE HE MADE

Any words from you will be gratefully received.
As an aside, I got to a handle a 5 foot alaia from the late 19th Century that contained vee in the nose, bevel edges, and 1" concave through the guts.
Those guys must've been ripping back then.
All the best Trevor(and Aloha from Jack),
Derek.

[/quote]

So what do you like about vee and roll ?

nah i never got into v we did build a few but they wernt for me
but here is the original note how much more refined it was compared to those other ugly beasts

haa scrubs up preety well the old midget eh

I haven't been all that keen on it over the years and had a hard time riding the plastic fantastic, wasn't too stoked on singlefin shortboards with tail vee either, I'd rather pull the tail in .


yea much beter good yak roy i might throw a few more spanners in the works if i get time this week haaa''
. cheers huie

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[mustkillmulloway]

so....basicly....ALL surfboards are displacement hulls

right just some displace more than others :?

p.s new feedback huie....friend zacs borrowed out the points sat ( first point day in months ) and loved it

just had a great time on it.....testing should pick up a bit this week...in line with swell patterns

p.p.s the board remains in the solace store in duke street sunshine beach if any one else wants give it a trial

[mustkillmulloway]

ohhh and u both got shit quote skills


ffs u make turtle look good

[huie]

ohhh and u both got shit quote skills

pot calling the kettle black


ffs u make turtle look good

[huie]

so....basicly....ALL surfboards are displacement hulls

right just some displace more than others :?

p.s new feedback huie....friend zacs borrowed out the points sat ( first point day in months ) and loved it


YEA THATS GOOD KEEP THE FEED BACK COMING

just had a great time on it.....testing should pick up a bit this week...in line with swell patterns

p.p.s the board remains in the solace store in duke street sunshine beach if any one else wants give it a trial

FONG SOLACE IN DUKE ST THAT JUST GAVE ME GOOSE BUMPS YA KNOW WHAT I MEAN

[huie]

ROY I AM SURE YA CAN REMEMBER THIS ( THIS ALSO IS NOT THE DEFINITIVE)



We experimented with every aspect of the design, taking each to their extreme. Lengths down to 5'5", thickness to almost zero; replicating in stand up form the spoons that Greenough rode on his knees. We tried very round bottom shapes, very thin tapered rails, very wide noses plan shapes. We moved the wide point forward and back, from a foot or more ahead of center and then slowly back depending on the length of turn desired.

The results, depending on the individual was an array of outlines that were appropriate for each at the surf spots they most frequented and their physical style of surfing.

The extreme shapes designed for the down the line surfing in California point surf, particularly Malibu were not easy to ride because the rail turning style had to be conciously developed. The natural tendency is to pivot turn off of the back foot and these boards were full rail turning machines. Stand forward, lean over and push off both feet to drive them down the line. The results and feeling of that style of surfing, for us were very rewarding and unique.

So for those twenty years the boards which I choose to call "displacement hulls", short for "transitional volume displacement hulls", became refined, sophisticated and very efficient in the surf they were designed to ride best........the small point surf of California. In retrospect and now I use the phrase " modified displacement" hull because the convex part of the bottom are much less severe and more user friendly than many of the boards built during that era. From the horse's mouth; Greg Liddle, Liddlesurfboards.com

Is the stringer lower than the outside edge of the rail beneath the portion of the board where you stand/trim/turn? That is it. That is my fucking definition. Who makes "hulls"? Anyone who can design a board that turns on a rail and whose trim spot is the same as the sweet spot. Greg makes his version, Mark Andieni makes his, Anderson/Bojorquez make theirs, Skip Frye makes his, Klaus Jones, Kellogg, Gross, McTavish, Duncan, and McCoy make theirs. I don't freaking care what they call their boards either. Nor do I lose sleep over it.

For Tom:

I will stop using the term "hull" to describe these "eggs" when everyone stops using the terms "thruster", "fish", "rocket fish" "stinger", "log", "longboard", "funboard", "mal", "mini-mal", "bonzer", "quad", "twinnie", "single-fin", "gun", "nose rider", "step deck", "spoon", "kneeboard", "belly board", and finally, last, but not least; "surfboard".[/i]

[Roy_Stewart]

The problem occurs because people assume that the term 'displacement hull' means that the board is a displacement hull instead of realising that it is a marketing term based on a misnomer.

This misunderstanding has caused some of the most confused discussions in surfboard design.

Roll bottom' would be a more accurate description.

Liddle also contradicts himself when he says "Is the stringer lower than the outside edge of the rail beneath the portion of the board where you stand/trim/turn? That is it. That is my **** definition."
and then "anyone who can design a board that turns on a rail and whose trim spot is the same as the sweet spot."
. . .. the two definitions he gives do not mean the same thing.

A board which "turns on a rail and whose trim spot is the same as the sweet spot" can just as easily have a flat or concae bottom, and plenty of boards with bottom roll don't have a sweet spot. . . old mals being a good example.

I'm not criticising his boards, just his illogical way of thinking and incorrect terminology. . . that sort of thing does affect design results negatively though, it's a handicap.

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[Roy_Stewart]

ROY I AM SURE YA CAN REMEMBER THIS ( THIS ALSO IS NOT THE DEFINITIVE)

I will stop using the term "hull" to describe these "eggs" when everyone stops using the terms "thruster", "fish", "rocket fish" "stinger", "log", "longboard", "funboard", "mal", "mini-mal", "bonzer", "quad", "twinnie", "single-fin", "gun", "nose rider", "step deck", "spoon", "kneeboard", "belly board", and finally, last, but not least; "surfboard".[/i]

By the way huie was that Liddle vs Tom Bloke on Swaylocks ?

Proceedings interrupted in favourof liddle by te banning of Mr Bloke in time honoured fascist fashion ?

I didn't object to the term 'hull' . . . after all every board has one. . just the misleading term displacement hull.

Some of my concave hulled boards have a much higher ratio of displacement to planing lift than Liddle's do. I don't call them displalcement hulls though because they are still primarily planing craft. I use the term displacement tail which i believe is a fairly accurate description.

Anyway, nice boards huie, I wish I'd been able to try one when I was living in Raglan and still riding shorties !

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[huie]

haaa' roy i put that in this nice quite corner so you and i could have a good look at what the sepos belive

mybe re analize it a bit

[Roy_Stewart]

Hi Huie,

Some of the stupidest people on the planet inhabit swaylocks, have you seen the latest BS thread about speed ?

That w*nker 'Honolulu' who is making snide comments about my gps speed recording should read this:

http://www.surfersvillage.com/surfing/47394/news.htm

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[huie]

nah roy i dont have the time to read all there shit

but this thread shows why they were & still are in the 40yr cocoon
PU with epoxy - shrinking problems

midgets foam is so far ahead of anything they had they just cant get there head around it

haaa' its good fun

[Roy_Stewart]

You posted there yesterday Huie, saying 'where's Roy'

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[huie]

ahhh' yea now i am with you
haa'' bet youd like to get into that bunch