Mini Simmons

[diggerdickson]

me, I think I will just go crawl into my little cave and keep my big mouth shut for a while.

Maybe I should have a drink, but damn it I gotta go back to work tommorow

[Roy_Stewart]

Well the popular story is that Simmons got his inspiration from some tiny water sleds designed by Lindsay lord, so which came first the mini or the longer version ?

[pridmore]

when I'm your age, I'll have 50 years experience too. ..my experience isnt as great in time as you, but I surf everyday on a wide variety of different board designs and share my opinions with others, some may be interested , some may not......
even if I wasnt selling boards, I'd still be on these and other forums coz I love surfboards and making them....I only responded with " do you give em away ? comment coz you said this thread was an add session, which it isnt, just my opinions and thoughts, and experiences ( which have been limited with this design so far but very enthusiastic coz I like it alot plus making a few of late ) . accuse me of cutting other board makers throats all you want but it is not the case, I have set my prices at a reasonable price so I can sell more and slowly build my business up before increasing the price, my concerns is my family and making a few bucks to survive more than what other board makers are selling their boards for, thtas their business, and my board prices are mine....
really dont like arguing over crap on this thread especially when I said to take the previous argument elsewhere ( hypocrit I am )...difference of opinion is fine , I'm gunna keep on doin my thing....

now back to the great fun little board the Mini-Simmons....sorry to hijack it with this BS guys....

[endseason]

What surf skill do u need to enjoy a Mini simmons?
and
how do i understand what the suitable dimensions are for me?

do i look for the same volume as my main board(i know volume is quite relative)?

cheers

[huie]

when I'm your age, I'll have 50 years experience too.

you will be lucky to achive that my son its a very rocky road with a lot of hatchet jobs on the way good luck



..my experience isnt as great in time as you, but I surf everyday on a wide variety of different board designs and share my opinions

qall the surfing in the world is just that an opinion or a self asessment it does not relate all that well to the shaping room for all customers only experience with the tools across the whole spectrum of all designs over time



with others, some may be interested , some may not......
even if I wasnt selling boards, I'd still be on these and other forums coz I love surfboards and making them....I only responded with " do you give em away ? comment coz you said this thread was an add session,

what you deny you were not looking for board sales


which it isnt, just my opinions and thoughts, and experiences ( which have been limited with this design so far but very enthusiastic coz I like it alot plus making a few of late ) . accuse me of cutting other board makers throats all you want but it is not the case

dont you advertise the price at $480 f##ck how much do you make out of that

there china prices mate shaping machine glasser f##ck not a lot of profit there eh



, I have set my prices at a reasonable price so I can sell more and slowly build my business up before increasing the price, my concerns is my family and making a few bucks to survive more than what other board makers are selling their boards for, thtas their business, and my board prices are mine....
really dont like arguing over crap on this thread especially when I said to take the previous argument elsewhere ( hypocrit I am )...difference of opinion is fine , I'm gunna keep on doin my thing....

now back to the great fun little board the Mini-Simmons....sorry to hijack it with this BS guys....

well what do you want to talk about the construction or the performance
fire away

[Wingnut]

I'd like to see one in compsand if that's possible...

[Cpt.Caveman]

Jebus fellas, I go away for three days on holidays and look what happens!

The surf was 1-2ft the whole time I was at Seal Rocks, and damn I'm glad I only took my simmons. Perfect for the conditions, had some cracking little waves at submarine beach.

I think its interesting that there are a lot of variations on the mini-simmons design now too. Similar themes, but a lot of subtle differences in rocker, foil, fins and placement, bottom shape, etc. Its an interesting kettle of fish...

[kayu]

Hey Jaffa , the way I see it , theres 2 ways to make a Simmons for any paticular surfer....IE vary the length....or vary the thickness ( or both).....iether way , the bottom shape will be similar.. ....and I think the bottom is the essence of the design.....

[Cuttlefish]

Hi Saltman,
I have two mini-simmons which are very different.
1. DMS 5'6" X 21 &1/2 (I think) X 2 & 3/4"
2. Bourton 5'8" X 22 & 5/8" X 3"
The DMS has belly through the nose and into a single concave out between the twin half moon keels (right back on the tail) with nose flip but very little tail rocker. Thickness is carried to the rails which are blocky and thickness is held to the nose and tail and has a resin tint. The DMS planshape is a lot straighter with little tail curve.
Meanwhile the Bourton has no belly but goes into a double concave out between the fins (FCS FK2) it has nose flip and an S deck and aggressive tail rocker. The thickness is largely in the mid section of the board and the nose and tail are much thinner than the DMS.
The rails are also more like a shortboards (down rail?).
The Bourton has a much lighter glass job (4ply diagonal) and a wet rub finish so very light compared to the heftier DMS.
The Bourton has a lot more curve in the rear of the board.
The DMS floats me higher (when sitting on the board) than the Bourton.
I've ridden the DMS quite a bit and it loves a hollow, fast wave. It will pivot on a steep face easily (belieing it's straight rails) and do a handy little snap.
Bought the Bourton to see if it will be a snappier board in fatter, gutless waves with it's different design elements.
Only had a few waves on it so far but it's feeling good.
The DMS always sends a lot of spray into my face paddling into waves (belly in nose) whereas the Bourton doesn't.
The one shared characteristic would be the feel of a skateboard (going really fast) with loose trucks.
By the way...Daniel Mcdonald is doing bamboo/eps mini-simmons.
Check em out on the fish fry blogspot.
Apparently Dane Reynolds has been seen riding a 3'8" mini-simmons Batoes.

[batoes]

wow 3'8 - is that the size of a body board? He is an outstanding surfer no doubt. Great to hear the significant difference in those boards cuttle - it would make an interesting quiver - just mini-simmons!

[Cuttlefish]

I like my variety so rode my 7'er with bonzer set up this morning.
Feels great on bottom turns and projecting down the line with it's rail line and bonzer fins with a Cadillac smooth ride.
Could well have ridden the lazor zap but don't have all that much room in the Camry sedan.
I miss my van...cart the whole quiver around (well 3 or 4 boards) ready for whatever the mood dictates.
Got an inkling the swell may drop some by tomorrow am so the Bourton may get another run.

[otway1949]

Hey Jaffa , the way I see it , theres 2 ways to make a Simmons for any paticular surfer....IE vary the length....or vary the thickness ( or both).....iether way , the bottom shape will be similar.. ....and I think the bottom is the essence of the design.....

So true and after Christmas and the Austrian goodies my wife makes, I'm working on varying the thickness
( mine) down

I rode a short Foley board in 1962 it was mall enough that I was allowed to carry it on the the back deck beside the stairs up on an old doubledecker bus to go and ride Fairy Bower.
I can't remember much of the dynamic I think egg rails thick and very flat and twin D fins. No nose rocker and very straight rails. I can't find any pictures so ?????? Seemed to go just OK as I rode it again several times.

[otway1949]

That reminds me Jaffa i just had to have my penis shortened.

Never mind the length feel the width!

From the posting that Guard has just sent
to use it, it had to be bent
for his personal plumbing.
Then instead of loud coming
it was rather a sigh as it went!

[kayu]

....a Foley with 2 fins...? .....a GW?

[otway1949]

....a Foley with 2 fins...?

Made out here so who knows 1962 i tell I got some strange looks and comments.Yep 2 fins.ight have been just called that but like all strange boards drew a lot of interest form people like Nipper and Robbie Lane back when he was carefree! Rode it a couple of times at Dee Why point but it didn't sit well over the hollower sections.
Definitely can't remember a Woodsie sticker anywhere, can't remember a sticker just the rego sticker.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Anyone have experience - feedback comparing Mini Sims with zero tail rocker (measured from the rail , as we know the concave on exit gives lift along the stinger) and those with some tail rocker?

Likewise any feedback on variations on amount of foil and its effect on performance in this design ?

I've been learning vicariously talking with Mark comparing our two dim-SIM's. They are pretty much the same dimensions (5'3" x 21" x 2 7/8") and same foil (flat-deck to medium boxy down-rail, slight s-deck), only Mark's has some more curve in the planshape and a bit over an inch of tail rocker. Mine has around half an inch of tail rocker and a wider straighter tail. Both boards have a deep single and belly nose.

The main difference seems to be that Mark's is happiest surfing in the pocket with the extra curves, but still super drivey and fast at all times. The flat tail on mine gives it more glide over flatter sections, as it takes just about every bit of energy the wave has and works with it. It seems that the flatter tail rocker results in more energy held by the board and less drag through turns, and more of an advantage in weak waves. I'm guessing it makes it plane on top of the water better. Its hard to compare the overall top speed though....would laugh at either of our attempts at trying to compare over email/phone etc. haha!

I have to admit, if mine had zero tail rocker I would want quite a bit of curve in the planshape to make up for it, and foiled out rails in the tail. With the huge buoyancy and lack of curves to turn off it would be very hard to turn, needing less foam in the tail so that you can bury the rail more easily. It could be very hard to turn without those things and might not suit someone used to the curves and hooks of a fish/shortboard. If you prefer surfing in the pocket and top-to-bottom I would recommend a bit of rocker for sure.

I'll try to take a rocker photo of mine for comparison. I can't say enough good things about this board...pure fun!

[huie]

thank you for proving my point
if you guys droped the blatent advertising and keep it to general thoughts wether it be riding the bloody thing or anyother thoughts

what is the density of the core of your board what vol is it
the bottom configuration
a board with no tail rocker at all will just be a heAP OF CRAP



there are three speed regimes that we need to examin here
displacement speeds which are at the lower end
the planing speeds at the higher end

and in between the so called semi displacement speed

its my oppinion that these or any other surfboard travels at semi displacement speed and therfore the crude use of lords antique meanderings are obsolete
the need to travel as eficiently as possible and at the same time deal with the critical wave sections it meets

so the things that stand out here
bottom config/?
rail rocker

volume includes varying \ core density

tail resitance any one notice whats going on there

cheers

[Cuttlefish]

My DMS with its straighter planshape and low rockered tail pivots easily and is happy doing snaps in the pocket as long as the wave isn't flat faced.