local shapers vs big names..

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oldman
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by oldman » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:37 pm

ric_vidal wrote:’tis all about processes and piece work. Some are are good at it some are crap. Pick the difference... good luck!
Even a master craftsmen can have an off day too, thinking about the fight he had with his missus the previous night, making a slip on the electric plane, finding the blank not quite as good as he normally gets, shaping for a pinhead that gives him the shits and doesn't put his whole soul into it.

I don't do boards, (yet :idea: ) but do woodwork, and everything in real craft is an expression of the self, and some days you are in the flow, and other days less so.

That's where standards come in. Some have 'em and some don't.
Natho wrote:Like alot of comments posted on these forums by so called 'indusrty experts' you have gotta read between the lines and see some of these people are pushing their own agendas and own products. I guess that's the freedom of these forums. I like to challenge that.
Good for you natho, unfortunately your ability to read between the lines is right up there with Mr Magoo.

Ric does have an agenda, as far as I have read between the lines, and it has been unerringly about quality of product, from quality blank to quality work to quality finish.

Sure, he talks the shite about design stuff but it doesn't read as proselytising to me, more about challenging the bog standard ideas, you know, a bit like what you claim to be doing.

Anyone who has been around surfing for a few years would know that the average surfer is as much a follower of fashion as the Double Bay ladies who lunch. I'm all for challenging that.
Lucky Al wrote:You could call your elbows borogoves, and your knees bandersnatches, and go whiffling through the tulgey woods north of narrabeen, burbling as you came.

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oldman
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by oldman » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:42 pm

iggy wrote:ok, RichQ (Pure Surfboards) for a handshaped (start to finish) beautiful looking and performing pintail (rounded or pin) step up or gun board..
i've got a 6'4 (single concave, vee exiting the tail), rounded pin, that is magnificient..

clean, classic, timeless shape
Second that.

Not so bad at a mini-mal shape as well, in fact a lot of other stuff.
Lucky Al wrote:You could call your elbows borogoves, and your knees bandersnatches, and go whiffling through the tulgey woods north of narrabeen, burbling as you came.

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Cpt.Caveman
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:07 pm

dinosaur wrote: You can put any old size blank in a machine and it will chew it down to the size you want with no real difference in time. You cut too far into a blank and your gonna end up with exactly the type of board your describing. The glass job is not really an issue. The answer is get to know the shaper I guess. Even merricks you could go down to onboard and have a chat. Take the board down and show em.

Are you guys referring to the change in foam density as you get deeper into the blank?

Therefore making a blank weak when you cut too far into it?
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

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Chillin
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by Chillin » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:14 pm

Just to get back on topic for a sec. Wer'nt all those 'big names' just 'local shapers' once? and didn't they have the forsight and skill to become nationally or internationaly known. I'm muso and one of my favourite stories is the Paul Reed Smith one. Some low life stole Carlos Santana's guitars and he managed to borrow one from a virtually unknown luthier (PRS). He loved the guitar so much that it is now the only thing he plays. Now PRS are a world brand fetching premium prices. Are they better now that they are factory made and mass produced? no. Do I want one? fark yeah, because its a known performer. Do I stop buying from the local shaper if he hits a nerve with the public and suddenly becomes sought after and can't keep up with demand, so has to get in a ghost. I dunno, lets face it there are good and bad in every industry, and good are not always good. Every step in the process will affect the performance of the board from the blank to the finish, I would imagine that it is a balancing act to maintain a strict high standard within a local shop. I feel that local shapers often put pressure on surfers to buy their boards (well mine does anyway) even though they are not known for the type of board i like to ride. My quiver has several Mericks, a Mctavish, one I made myself (my favourite) an old 80's twinny by G&S and an tufflite mal. The two Merricks are worlds apart. On is a MSF ordered from the states with custom spray. I took 9 wks to get here and has probably one of the best glass jobs and finishes I'v seen and after 18 months of constant use is still in amazing cond.(its also signed by Al and Machado,sweeet). The other is a local (SYD?) Merrick knock off, and frankly the glass job is rubbish and Al should fire whoever is doing em and get his money back cos whoever it is is causing irreperable damage to his reputation (see other comments on this thread). The Tufflite does what its supposed to do, catch waves when its crap for anything else and after two yrs is undamaged.
Your opinion is worth as much as it costs.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by daryl » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:58 pm

iggy wrote:
daryl wrote:Then from Dalmeny is DSC, it's called either a Steve Irwin or a Fat Bastard, and if you want an all-rounder that will take on just about any size, this board is too easy.
sorry Daryl, that board's possibly the ugliest looking pig i've ever laid eyes on...
wide point looks about a foot up from the tail, uneven outline, vee bottom that looks like a boat, and rails and rocker that defy thought or logic..
:lol: :lol: proof's in the riding though :?
have a ride anytime, you're welcome :D
I'll show it to Ric and see if he agrees with you.
Personally my taste generally runs to chunky, earthy, structured gee Iggy get real, your shapes ain't xzactly pretty.
Heck I don't like much art besides Cezanne and Mondrian what does that tell you, but what do I know :roll:

FAT boards ps right click on View Image to see these full size. Pridmore reckons the pictures are shit and you can't see anything from them, well excuse me.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by JET01 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:39 pm

I reckon that's why Kelly decided to start shaping his own boards in the first place... Probably figured "If Al doesn't give a f#@k anymore, then i guess i'm gunna have to ! "

the pics of the FAT Board suck... worst i've seen... nice blue colour is about all you can see... or have i had too much to drink again?

This thread has put me off buying anything from a big name shaper ever again (excluding customs).
It just sounds like anything along the Base/GSI/onboard lines is just about all garbage.
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by daryl » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:47 pm

JET01 wrote:I reckon that's why Kelly decided to start shaping his own boards in the first place... Probably figured "If Al doesn't give a f#@k anymore, then i guess i'm gunna have to ! "

the pics of the FAT Board suck... worst i've seen... nice blue colour is about all you can see... or have i had too much to drink again?

This thread has put me off buying anything from a big name shaper ever again (excluding customs).
It just sounds like anything along the Base/GSI/onboard lines is just about all garbage.
hey Dickhead did ya Right Click on them?

JET01
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by JET01 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:35 pm

Daryl, you're right mate, I am a dickhead, but there's no need to yell... Firstly, i'm not deaf, and secondly, It's not going to change the shit pictures :wink:

Just relax... take some more pics that aren't so FUCKING HUGE and maybe they might fit on the average screen. As it stands i have my laptop plugged into my 37" LCD TV and they still don't fit.

You must have a fancy camera. Maybe you should take some pics of the Adelaide going down and email them to Matt... I'm sure he'd love that.

Back to the topic though. I didn't mean to sound like i was bad-mouthing Base, i've never had any of their products so won't comment until I do. I've just heard a few negative things about the glassjobs, but then again, when it comes to glassing it seems it's impossible to keep 100% of people happy 100% of the time. I think it's often the case that people expect too much in the way of durability from surfboards. I personally like the idea that boards aren't going to last forever... More excuse to get new gear!!!
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by JET01 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:53 pm

For the record i like your board Daryl... nice and big, bet it's a great paddler. Noticed the single fin box... do you mix the fin combo's up much? What have you tried so far?
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.

mical
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by mical » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:11 pm

dinosaur wrote:I think surfboards are a pretty personal thing
Bravo Dino, more people need to understand this.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by Red October » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:07 pm

You can have a great design and the latest/greatest shaping machine but if Benny at the factory cant sand well or load the blank in properly it all goes to custard.I've seen a mates "custom" Webber whose deck sunk and delaminated after 1 surf (2-3 foot).My mate weighs all of 65kgs. I've seen a stringer sprayed over and drawn back on straight to give the impression of symmetry. Sand throughs and rail edges like crinkle cut chips. All from world class shapers labels. You'd think the shapers would be pissed at the damage to their reputations.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by ric_vidal » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:41 am

JET01 wrote:I've just heard a few negative things about the glassjobs, but then again, when it comes to glassing it seems it's impossible to keep 100% of people happy 100% of the time. I think it's often the case that people expect too much in the way of durability from surfboards. I personally like the idea that boards aren't going to last forever... More excuse to get new gear!!!
This is it Jet-1, and nothing to do with who shapes, who ‘shapes’ anyway these days, ’cept we monkeys who enjoy it?

Point is what do people expect from their board? Not a lot of knowledge about what goes into them or they can’t communicate it.

My criticism is about what most people either don’t know or because they can’t... as in what was this board cut/shaped from and what density foam? And workmanship that APPEARS OK, but in reality isn’t... and that is usually sanding - over sanding, which usually then goes back to the knucklehead who did the filler coats and how they did it. Problem areas SHOULD be confined to nose and tail rails, not decks and bottoms.

It isn’t rocket science, but it does take some skill and experience.

Rule of thumb: if it is light it is because it is lacking stuff. That ‘stuff’ might be... glass or foam density. Don’t complain when you put your knee through it, crease or snap it. Exceptions only occur with different construction techniques/materials ala Josh’s compsands, Firewires et al, and Tuflites, but they can have their own set of problems, ’cept for Josh’s of course. :wink:

Yes Natho, these are generalisations.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by daryl » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:06 am

JET01 wrote:For the record i like your board Daryl... nice and big, bet it's a great paddler. Noticed the single fin box... do you mix the fin combo's up much? What have you tried so far?
:oops: :oops: :oops:
all I've done is inch the centre fin up a bit, might give it a bigger shove next time

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by PeepeelaPew » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:27 pm

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Last edited by PeepeelaPew on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Natho
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by Natho » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:59 pm

You are correct and I meant to say that going wider makes more difference to volume relative than going longer (not thicker). My mistake and sorry you had to go to that trouble to prove me wrong.

Back to topic.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by PeepeelaPew » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:14 pm

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Last edited by PeepeelaPew on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Natho
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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by Natho » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:33 pm

With my own boards Ive been into playing with a little more width than thickness when going shorter.

I like to keep my small wave boards the same thickness as my normal shorties, so I havn't really been thinking about thickness to add volume of late.

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Re: local shapers vs big names..

Post by mustkillmulloway » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:19 pm

Carpark King wrote:95% of my surfboards have been from local shapers, who's clientele mostly involve people from the surrounding area and boardriding clubs etc..
Im thinking of getting a 'big name' next time i get a board, ie a chilli or JS or something similar, maybe even off the rack.

What are your guys thoughts on this? should you stick to the $450 local shaper boards, or ride boards that are ridden by some of the top pro's...

?

cheers

i dunno,,,i tend think every board has it charms- u just got put in the time learn ride em right :idea:

having said that....a mark richards is a board i'd love own one day :!: just a stockie...could never afford a custom :oops:
reginald wrote:Hang on, now all of a sudden I'm the bad guy. How the try again did that happen?

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