Modern Planing Hulls
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Modern Planing Hulls
Apparently Tomo Firewire's will be coming out next year: http://www.firewiresurfboards.com/news/ ... urfboards/
This is a prototype: http://instagram.com/p/OuUrx5qQBa/
It will give surfers who don't live in California a chance to demo one but I am not sure that Firewire will capture the essence of a low volume planing hull. Perhaps Taj or Sally Fitz will ride one in a WCT next year and your local shaper will start making a few?
I have one from a local shaper and they are super fun, I know a couple of guys on this forum are enjoying their Tomos as well.
If you want to rant about Firewire, that's cool but if you'd like to talk about MPH's, that would be even cooler
This is a prototype: http://instagram.com/p/OuUrx5qQBa/
It will give surfers who don't live in California a chance to demo one but I am not sure that Firewire will capture the essence of a low volume planing hull. Perhaps Taj or Sally Fitz will ride one in a WCT next year and your local shaper will start making a few?
I have one from a local shaper and they are super fun, I know a couple of guys on this forum are enjoying their Tomos as well.
If you want to rant about Firewire, that's cool but if you'd like to talk about MPH's, that would be even cooler
Davros: "But it felt a bit long and stiff"
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
I'm loving my V4 - but the koolaid over on the 'other' forum has died in the ass majorly
A combination of customer service issues and firewire have combined to become the dead hooker in the closet...stinking fifty pages up majorly.
I actually think many of them believed they were part of the whole Tomo brand evolution and now feel betrayed. Weird, they're just surfboards.
Anyway, hard to know what the firewire tomo boards will be like, or which ones will be made available. Dunno if i'd go for one of the full on 'deathstar' next gen things to be honest. I think to get away with one of those, you gotta be a seriously good surfer, which i'm not.
That said, i'm looking forward to seeing what's on offer, especially in the grovel department.
A combination of customer service issues and firewire have combined to become the dead hooker in the closet...stinking fifty pages up majorly.
I actually think many of them believed they were part of the whole Tomo brand evolution and now feel betrayed. Weird, they're just surfboards.
Anyway, hard to know what the firewire tomo boards will be like, or which ones will be made available. Dunno if i'd go for one of the full on 'deathstar' next gen things to be honest. I think to get away with one of those, you gotta be a seriously good surfer, which i'm not.
That said, i'm looking forward to seeing what's on offer, especially in the grovel department.
Hatchnam wrote:
Filthy little hipster.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Yes indeed, the internet is a funny place...Page 1 everything is rosy, best board ever, by page 50 Howz the guy who bought a new board then asked "should I sell it before I ride it?" WTF!batoes wrote:I'm loving my V4 - but the koolaid over on the 'other' forum has died in the ass majorly
A combination of customer service issues and firewire have combined to become the dead hooker in the closet...stinking fifty pages up majorly.
I actually think many of them believed they were part of the whole Tomo brand evolution and now feel betrayed. Weird, they're just surfboards.
Anyway, hard to know what the firewire tomo boards will be like, or which ones will be made available. Dunno if i'd go for one of the full on 'deathstar' next gen things to be honest. I think to get away with one of those, you gotta be a seriously good surfer, which i'm not.
That said, i'm looking forward to seeing what's on offer, especially in the grovel department.
It will be interesting to see how these boards turn out and people's acceptance....the sweet potato did OK and changed people's perception. I am not sure if I will jump on this train (loving my dynacore at the moment) but as I live so close to Currumbin I'll definitely demo one at some stage...it would be rude not to
Davros: "But it felt a bit long and stiff"
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
After surfing a few types of boards that follow the modern planing hull principle, even wide-tailed fish with traditional swallows that have been more modernised or foiled down, I do think they have a future in surfing.
If you get more planing speed for less effort, thats already a big plus for me. The problem always is, how to control that lift and speed in critical sections or when the waves develop some grunt. Whats nice to see is several shapers starting to find these balances to make them functional for a surfer who likes to do pocket surfing and tighter lines - while having control to rail-carve - while having all the planing speed.
I think its the future of the average surfer, who doesn't want to surf faster for less effot, and have a radical little package you can overpower into turns too? I don't doubt pro surfing will take (ages) to experiment this far from centre. Even Kelly riding snub nose quads wouldn't tempt most WCT surfers, so a square nose and tail snub nose channeled 5'2" x 17" odd will have even less of a chance.
Thats alright though, they can keep surfing on their tried and true while us people who surf for a smile can experiment to our hearts content, and find some good times in the process!
If you get more planing speed for less effort, thats already a big plus for me. The problem always is, how to control that lift and speed in critical sections or when the waves develop some grunt. Whats nice to see is several shapers starting to find these balances to make them functional for a surfer who likes to do pocket surfing and tighter lines - while having control to rail-carve - while having all the planing speed.
I think its the future of the average surfer, who doesn't want to surf faster for less effot, and have a radical little package you can overpower into turns too? I don't doubt pro surfing will take (ages) to experiment this far from centre. Even Kelly riding snub nose quads wouldn't tempt most WCT surfers, so a square nose and tail snub nose channeled 5'2" x 17" odd will have even less of a chance.
Thats alright though, they can keep surfing on their tried and true while us people who surf for a smile can experiment to our hearts content, and find some good times in the process!
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
I think you re right Captain, the current crop of Pros have only just summoned up the courage to follow KS and ride a quad in competition >><< ........it could be a decade or two before they ditch their pointy nose boards.
Davros: "But it felt a bit long and stiff"
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Tomo's boards look really interesting - but what is all this "Planing Hull" bullhsit? All surfboards are planning hulls - they all generate lift at speed resulting in less wetted area.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Uh oh, run for the hillspinhead wrote:Tomo's boards look really interesting - but what is all this "Planing Hull" bullhsit? All surfboards are planning hulls - they all generate lift at speed resulting in less wetted area.
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
The theory is, althought all surfboards that don't sink and stop while you're on a wave is of course a planing hull. So is a skimboard, until it sinks I guess...pinhead wrote:Tomo's boards look really interesting - but what is all this "Planing Hull" bullhsit? All surfboards are planning hulls - they all generate lift at speed resulting in less wetted area.
The approach is that current boards have a lot of elements that actually increase drag in different ways by being an inefficient object trying to force itself through the water. The planing hull theory is about making as many design elements of the surfboard to have less drag, while retaining the types and amounts of drag needed to turn and keep it under control.
In my humble understanding, all surfboards go fast off the front foot in a straight line (within reason). Its the dynamics between the board and the water that are important during pressuring of the rail and turning that makes the biggest difference, aka how much drag is created and how much speed is lost while pressuring to turn. Planing hulls try to minise this so maximise speed and lift/redirecting of water.
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
IMHO this is not a unique approach to surfboard designCpt.Caveman wrote:making as many design elements of the surfboard to have less drag, while retaining the types and amounts of drag needed to turn and keep it under control.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Like Batoes, I'm really loving my Tomo V4. Bought it almost on a whim and have ridden my 6'2" conventional very little since owning it. Initial paddle shock, but not too different. Handles pretty solid waves for it's meagre 5'9" (pointy nose). Very fast, loose and still has grip. Tested the last point in 4-5 foot long-period groundswell waves though. Didn't spin out, but it was at it's limits - for me, at least
It has a 5 box setup and have ridden it as a thruster except for once as a quad recently in the Maldives. Interesting thing was, it was less solid off the bottom (surfing backhand) as a quad than as a thruster. Can't quite get the head around that. Q-1000 rears added heaps more fin area than the PC-5 I took out
Mine's a conventional build. More buoyancy associated with newer technologies would be appreciated, but I have no complaint. Firewire might be onto something given how hard it apparently is to get Dan to shape you a board. I'd recommend a demo to anyone. Make up your own mind, but I reckon they'll move quite a few units
Swellnet recently had some pics of Adam Robertson riding a Tomo
http://www.swellnet.com.au/galleries/3133-classic-lines
It has a 5 box setup and have ridden it as a thruster except for once as a quad recently in the Maldives. Interesting thing was, it was less solid off the bottom (surfing backhand) as a quad than as a thruster. Can't quite get the head around that. Q-1000 rears added heaps more fin area than the PC-5 I took out
Mine's a conventional build. More buoyancy associated with newer technologies would be appreciated, but I have no complaint. Firewire might be onto something given how hard it apparently is to get Dan to shape you a board. I'd recommend a demo to anyone. Make up your own mind, but I reckon they'll move quite a few units
Swellnet recently had some pics of Adam Robertson riding a Tomo
http://www.swellnet.com.au/galleries/3133-classic-lines
marcus wrote:and that vicco dude, whatsisname?
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Hey swvic, how were the maldives? Did you get some good waves?
Glad you took the tomo and gave it go. I am the same, i have two 5"11 boards that havent had a look in recently.
Glad you took the tomo and gave it go. I am the same, i have two 5"11 boards that havent had a look in recently.
Davros: "But it felt a bit long and stiff"
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Yeah, JaM, the Maldives were great. Fun size only though. Biggest was 4 ft. Surfed at Chickens and Cokes mostly due to the small swell. Had a couple of surfs at Sultans and Jailbreaks. Got a backhand barrel at Cokes. A bit difficult to fit into backhand, because at that size it's not top to bottom - more a highish thing. Pretty competitive out there with lots of boats converging, but it was possible to get it uncrowded. During the busiest times I was mostly over at Chickens - being patient and waiting for the wide sets. Speed run start and then a skate park type wave with the occasional quick coverup. More hollow on the inside, but mostly slow and gutless. And that's where most people sat. The odd good insider though. Current mostly wanted to drag you inside so I had a few of them
marcus wrote:and that vicco dude, whatsisname?
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
True, definitely not unique to this board, but like a lot of surfboard concepts this combination of elements is unique. Traditionally the same elements would be made for smaller and weaker waves, making the ride skatey or boat-like, topping out the range when the waves develop some grunt. This is kind of the opposite, some of these boards don't actually grovel and are more about hitting greater speeds on good waves while maintaining control.pinhead wrote:IMHO this is not a unique approach to surfboard designCpt.Caveman wrote:making as many design elements of the surfboard to have less drag, while retaining the types and amounts of drag needed to turn and keep it under control.
You still need drag to turn, which is important, turning a surfboard is about creating pressure and redirecting water (e.g. fins, a rail digging into the water). The question is, how can you still create the pressure and drag necessary to surf in the pocket and push aggresive turns, but while taking away as many other sources of drag as possible and making all of the angles and edges in the tail favor quick release of the water out the back (instead of for example, a pulled in curvey tail which causes the board to sink more into the water as you turn sharply, losing speed).
The general theory is being seen in all sorts of recent boards now (forward widepoint with a straighter rail line coming to wider tail, foam still foiled out to allow for bite, bottom contours for grip and release out the tail, round or chop-nose for low swing weight, sometimes tail cut-outs to allow for extra grip).
Some examples of boards that are moving this direction are:
- Tomo MPH and Next-Gen.
- Al Merrick Neck Beard.
- Diverse Chopper and Felix.
- MORE Dumpling.
- Vampyrate snub nose things Mark Gneck made recently.
- MG Retro Fish.
- Ryan Burch asyms.
- Plenty of the Hydrodynamica models.
I reckon we'll see plenty more and all sorts of tangents and flavors with these boards. Its a natural progresion for the fun-driven everyday surfer who might be experimenting with quads and fish at the moment, and is more about the sensation of speed and having some fun in quality waves rather than being restricted to ball tearing thruster surfing only for quality waves.
The typical HPS thruster still has a valid place of course, its a very well balanced board, but again its one particular feel and combination of design elements thats not for everyone, or for everyone all the time.
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
i have been enjoying a 5'7 nano copy and a 5'2 vanguard copy for a while now. the 5'2 just feels so right under my feet. plenty of bite up to 4-6ft. it would probably hold in ok in bigger waves, but a little bit more length would be better for that. I'm definitely planning on taking the 5'2 (and maybe the 5'7) on a mentawai trip next year.
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Hi pirate, i saw one of your boards on this site, looks awesome you made it right? What dims is your 5"2? Sounds like it covers 95% of east coast surf!
in your opinion how important is it to go super short and a little under volume with these boards.
Cheers
in your opinion how important is it to go super short and a little under volume with these boards.
Cheers
Davros: "But it felt a bit long and stiff"
Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Yeah Cavie, I can see what he's doing design wise, I just don't like what he's doing with the English language - all surfboards are planning hulls, I know I looked it up on wikipedia. But marketing aside I think that thing Kennedy is riding is a design break through. One thing the design does is resolve the paddle/volume trade off. By having straight rail at the entry point, there's much less drag when paddling as water isn't being pushed over curved rail. So he doesn't have to use volume to push the entry point back. It's a neat trick.
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
What's amazing is that Cpt Caveman and Pinhead have managed to get to the heart of the design and articulate it in less than one page.
Meamwhile the Seppos are still banging on with 50 pages of "So sick, Brah" and no fuggin idea!
Meamwhile the Seppos are still banging on with 50 pages of "So sick, Brah" and no fuggin idea!
Only a rat can win the rat race.
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Re: Modern Planing Hulls
Very true, hes either a little arrogant and likes to lose people with his physics terminology so he sounds really smart, or its a deliberate marketing techinque to use the same effect to bedazzle people into thinking theres amazing cutting edge science behind what hes doing. I mean there have been long threads on swaylocks about his misuse of physics theories when describing his boards, such as Bernouli's principle etc.pinhead wrote:Yeah Cavie, I can see what he's doing design wise, I just don't like what he's doing with the English language - all surfboards are planning hulls.
I mean, the simplest way to describe what hes doing in my understanding is, if you have a wider and straighter tail planshape the board will sit on top of the water better and go faster because it doesn't dig into the water and slow you down as much. Combine this with the fact that water doesn't stick to hard edges, with all of the hard edges and angles around the tail you also have a faster release of the pressured water out the back, which again allows it to sit on top of the water better.
I don't doubt you could argue plenty of the elements of Dan Tomos Next Gen ARE cutting edge, I mean watch Stu Kennedy do a full rotated air reverse which he can only achieve the whole way because he doesn't have a nose to catch into the wave as hes rotating back around in an inverted angle. I don't see that as cutting edge for my surfing however, haha, I just see more nose-dives.
I also don't see many fish inspired designs with wider and straigther tail planshapes that have incorporated extra elements to create hold in solid or quality waves, so you can argue hes one of the few people trying to bring fish inspired designs into mainstream performance surfing for quality waves.
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.
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