RealSurf Surfers' Forum

So I know the toe of a fin is the angle it points towards the nose, more angle towards the nose, more manouverability and less angle (straighter positioning) means more drive...is this correct? I once saw a fin system that even let you change the toe angle...why did that not take off?

Secondly, cant (or so I'm told) is how much the tip of the fin is to the angled to the rail, or how perpindicular the fin is to the base of the board, how does various angles impact the board?

the fin system your reffering to maybe 4 way fin system. 4wfs.com. why it never took of i dont know ,its got to be the ultimate in fine tuning a surfboard, how many new shooters you had that look the goods.....but just arent quite right ? a tweak of toe in , a degree or two more cant....shift the fin cluster forward or back 10-15 mm may have sorted it out....N carroll has played with this system i think, nick? for me it gonna be fitted to my next custom forsure. they have a good range of fins as well, gotta be the go to sort out the quad setups.

robzig has got it pretty much right IMHO but want to add that another reason 4ws did not go is because the SA's who own it are too full of themselves that they had god's gift to surfing and are near impossible to deal with re distribution etc, the whole thing is bogged down by their own attitude and it is typical of most surf related brands stemming from there. Island Style is another example, good product just tooooo hard to deal with.

biggest issue though is too many variables that even the best informed shaper/surfer would need a testing and trial system set up to process the results into any meaninful reference taht even a smart focussed surfer could easily gain advantage from

I had them in one of my boards. I basically tweaked toe and position once and never adjusted them again. In order to do the tweaking right - hate to interupt a session - I learned a whole lot about fin position to the point where I could set up fin position and be confident it was right. So I never ordered them again

clay you're kind of right there, let me explain it a bit more clearly.

straightening the rail fins so they're closer to parallel with the stringer won't increase the drive; what it'll do is change the angle at which the board will tip into a turn.

A well-toed fin will tip the board into a turn on that board's best natural angle. That's usually somewhere in the back third of the board, where outline and rocker combine to provide you with plenty of curve to accomplish a turn easily.

A straighter fin will tip the board so that the nose is a little lower and the tail a little higher, thus running the turn through a little further up the rail line. A lot of the time this makes the board feel train-tracky, since the outline and rocker through the middle of a board is usually a fair bit straighter than it is in the back end. Most surfers will find they fight a board that tips on to the mid rail.

Typically most thrusters perform well with a rail fin toe-in of around 3.5 to 4 degrees. That seems to tip most boards at a comfortable angle and engage the back third nicely. But depending on the board you can get some great results shifting a degree or more off that line either way.

I've done this a fair bit with the 4Way system and the other one that pre-dated it, the Swivel. Can really fine tune a board if you want. But like pinhead suggests, you'll usually find there's a perfect spot and angle for a fin set in any board, once you get it there you just leave it forever.

Myself, been more into relative fin position lately, shifting the rail fins so they're slightly offset -- backside fin fractionally further back from frontside, back fin matching frontside. Feels to me like this works to the benefit of a typical asymmetric surfing stance. It's bloody subtle, only a bit less than a quarter inch split on most boards, but I feel a freer frontside bottom turn and a more nicely pressurised backside turn of any kind.

Thanks NC....if you are going asymetrical on the fins would you also do that with rails or shape outline as well?

Nah, too complicated.