Future fins

[ric_vidal]

I dunno if you can fault fcs on fin quality, they do a good job, but like a lot of surfers I have had issues with the plug lay-ins at different times and definitely prefer the Surfinz box style set up for fcs tab fins. Vaguely surprised that fcs hasn't adopted a similar box style thing themselves.

When I was repairing, the box style Furures and the others of a similar style were always an absolute sh*tfight. FCS had many and varied problems, but were somewhat easier and less destructive to the board as a whole.

FCS tabs, especially glass fins, are unlikely to snap before the plug(s) go. In most cases, even in the composite (cheaper) variety it is the rear tab that breaks away only. Only reason is because it is thinner.

I still have a fundamental problem with box style installations. That being a box, no matter how solid it is and I have seen Futures snapped and split, is simply sitting in invariably soft, compressible foam. No strength in resin per se so you have a bit of glass over the top trying to stick to something that it really doesn't want to. Why do I say this, because if you take one out invariably most of the resin does NOT come away with it and it doesn’t matter how much they score or groove them prior. The bond is purely mechanical and it can fail.

I have seen way too many cracks running along the sides, total roll overs that sheer the foam and everything in between. Absolute mess most of them.

It ain’t the boxes kids, it’s the installation systems/expectations and ALL the systems are basically flawed. There are solutions out there and one is very simple for FCS, but they won’t be pursued by most.

I haven’t come across ANYONE yet who installs FCS by the book.

[robzig]

[ric_vidal]

Trouble is robzig, half the time punters don't know until it is too late. Admittedly you can't always tell by looking, at least not the fault I'm referring to as it is a bit more of a subtle one and won't necessarily bring a plug unstuck, but it certainly isn't going to help.

Worst I have seen of FCS instals is intentional 'floating' plugs, I'm mean for f8cks sake how long is that going to last? All for cosmetic sake.

[robzig]

[Hollowed out]

no matter what fin system you use/install, if ya make boards and sell 'em, ya gotta hve shit for brains if ya do not insist on the fin company providing you with indemnity against law suit if someone who buys ya board brand sues you for injury from fins.
OK, dismiss it and call it what you like,but why take any risk when all (or good) fin suppliers should give you that indemnity because it is their responsibility, not yours.
The law suit against Channel islands and FCS is real, not a joke (whatever you make want to think) and if you want to avoid that sort of shit, simply insist on an indemnity form, if they can not supply it, record that you demanded it and tell them to Fcuk off, unless you want to risk the lot on their word...up to you

[ric_vidal]

Sorry hollow but that sounds just plain ridiculous or am I missing something?

Indemnity for what?

[Hollowed out]

sorry ric i was referring to that law suit in the states by a guy who got badly injured by a Channel Islands board with FCS and is suing them both in a pretty big way, so that does cast some doubts (ridiculous as it may sound) on the legal status of the board maker in that situation. Avoid the risk is all I am saying.

[Hollowed out]

http://www.surfersvillage.com/news.asp?Id_news=54922
Ric here is a link to the story...crazy but true

[steve shearer]

I loved speed fins, the flick back flex was awesome, but the tIniest bump on the fins and you were into ding repair mode

Agreed. Anyone still using them?
I've got a set of real nice ceramic ones on a Jim Banks semi-gun that I'd like to recycle into another board.
They really had something going there.

[tiger]

^^
I sold what I had left to dUg a while back, don't know if he got around to using them, or is just hoarding them.

I've still got a couple of old boards with them, my assymetrical and 6'9" serious wave board. Both sentimental keepers.

I've just started using futures, and the only drawback I foresee is the fin meets immovable object, and ensuing damage.

FCS have never been a prob for me. I got shown the install by Brian Witty himself back in about 94, before they'd even hit production. So I've done it right from the start. Can't see the sense in half-arsing the install. It's a quick and easy job with the right tools.

[ric_vidal]

http://www.surfersvillage.com/news.asp?Id_news=54922
Ric here is a link to the story...crazy but true

Thanks HO... this really sums it up though, if you ask me.

"are knowledgeable and sophisticated users who knew or should have known any dangers associated with use of the product, even in the absence of any warnings."

One if the guy had travel insurance?

Next people will be suing car companies for fwits who can't drive or are unfortunate enough to have an accident of some description. Honestly, when are people going to take responsibility for their own actions or misfortunes.

Send the guy some sandpaper and a box of tissues.

[ric_vidal]

FCS have never been a prob for me. I got shown the install by Brian Witty himself back in about 94, before they'd even hit production. So I've done it right from the start. Can't see the sense in half-arsing the install. It's a quick and easy job with the right tools.

And a clever guy like you, T-Tiger, should know how to improve on it. I think I found two things that are relatively simple, one takes a bit more time and expense. Trouble is, I've never popped one anyway. Must be my lousy surfing.

I was told Brian Witty wanted a larger diameter installation hole and they didn't proceed that way with the tools.

Seems some makers are already down that path.

[tiger]

Hey Ric.

I was working at Byrne at the time, and I think Witty/GG were pretty keen to get him onto the system. Think Witty got a little flustered as he forgot to catalyse the resin, Phil and I were getting a little impatient after about an hour. So he pulled them out and remixed a bit of a hot mix. He felt like he botched it, but Phil was sold on it. Me too, I was over sanding around fins.

For a much maligned system, it has thoroughly dominated the market.In a form that is basically the same as the original shown to me that day. Some 18yrs ago.

The only alteration I've used on the install is a piece of dowel with a panhead screw on the end of it. Screwed in leaving about a 2mm gap between the head of the screw and the dowel. This is used just to score/compress the foam just under the glass around the hole, allowing the the resin to fill in under there on the pour. If the rest of the install is done right, never felt the need to do more.

[ric_vidal]

The only alteration I've used on the install is a piece of dowel with a panhead screw on the end of it. Screwed in leaving about a 2mm gap between the head of the screw and the dowel.

OK, that’s one, ala the Speeedfins install, but I just use an inverted countersunk screw to undercut under the lip so it is not visible.

There is another additive, no not hammerfrigginmill, something that will make an otherwise brittle column of resin unlikely to snap. Don't think anyone will guess this one or perhaps care, it may be irrelevant, and I may take it to my grave...

and that to me is a big part of the problem, relying on brittle resin to be able to withstand the pressure. Epoxy is not applicable as it isn't brittle but can have another set of problems.

TT, seen more than one case of resin not being catalysed for plugs and even laminates and just about everything else.

[tiger]

^^
We've all been there! >><<

[dUg]

^^
I sold what I had left to dUg a while back, don't know if he got around to using them, or is just hoarding them.

heh heh, still got a few left Tiger plus some of the pots. Got a couple of sets of the REO's kicking around too, but I'll never use 'em. My last board with Speeedfins in died last year, and I doubt I'd put them in any new projects. I must admit the hex core fins in that board wobble quite a bit at the base, I was a bit shocked at how bad they'd become.

how hard are futures for us backyarders to install? asking for trouble?

[tiger]

Hey Dug. Futures are a simple install. But you need to buy the kit, which is something like $200. All the proper bits and pieces are what make it easy, and you'll need a trimmer style router too.

[Natho]

Anyone got any feedback on Powerbase fins? Got a set to try but I have only used them once in very average surf.The set I tried felt like they flexed a bit too much through turns for my liking, but there were some added positives such as a bit more spring out of turns.I need to try em again in better waves.

I just think the retail prices being asked by the likes of FCS are simply a rip off.One reason I'm going back to the good ol glass ins.