getting stuck behind on take off

[brukuns]

Hi guys,

Even though I have been surfing for some time now, every now and then I see myself in this pathetic situation, where I paddle for the wave (usually when it's hollow), but the board seems to get "stuck" on top of the wave, eventually behind the lip. I see other guys paddling for the same waves, and it's like their board "sink" enough on the wave that they can take off just slightly before the wave breaks (did I mention this happens when it's hollow?).

On this situation it feels that if I resume taking off, I will go over the falls, because the board didn't slide on the wave early enough. on these days I see at least a dozen surfers paddling and perfectly taking off on most waves, while I get stuck behind, which sucks.

What am I doing wrong? I already checked the tips for paddling, very helpful btw, just wandering what else might be the problem.

thanks in advance!

IMPORTANT INFO: I have to admit I'm a little chicken shit when it comes to hollow waves... more often than not I fall bak just before taking off, when it feels the take off will be too steep... so ashamed of myself

[dUg]

This is something most of us have struggled with at novice level, but occasionally it returns like some unpleasant underpant disease. If you are beyond that level, e.g. you've been able to pop-up and get into steep-ish waves late for at least a couple of years, a few possibilities spring to mind:

- dud board. I recently shaped one of these pieces of crap that just cannot get into waves. I've ridden borrowed boards from time to time that have done this too me - boards that just seem to hesitate at the top of the wave, immediately before you want to get up. the best thing to do is get rid of it ASAP. let the money go.

- poor wave choice. Some days you are on it... some dayes you just aren't. You say other guys are picking up waves you're not - it may just be that they have the break(s) wired, know where to sit, etc. etc.

- you changed something. A couple of years ago I had three surfs in a row where I couldn't get my back foot placement right. Got really pissed off with it and thought it was a problem with my recovering broken ankle... until I took off the booties I'd been using on icy mornings... and suddenly the problem disappeared.

- a new, bad habit developing. Sometimes this happens and you need to break it by doing something almost completely wrong or counter-intutive. I suggest deliberately going over the falls a few times.

[steve shearer]

I'd bet all the tea in China this is a positioning problem, especially considering your description of getting stuck on top of the wave.

To catch a hollow wave you must be correctly positioned under the lip to take-off. That entails a vertical or close to vertical drop.

Watch where people are taking off and committ to the steep vertical take-off.

NC has a good thing on it in his book.

You have top lean forwards on the take-off to get your board moving forwards, against the up-rush of water moving into the lip.

Fail at that and you will become part of the lip and go over the falls.

Watch some vids and see how it is done.

[Grooter]

Agree with Steve and Dug. Especially the part about leaning forward when you pop up. It's something I always forget after surfing on spilling waves for a couple of weeks to more low-tide hollow ones and it always catches me out.

Don't fear going over the falls mate, embrace it, happens to everyone. Myself I'm a fcuking master at it :?

[pinhead]

It's a mental thing - you're thinking I need to be up on my feet early to make this drop - and that's causing you to start jumping up before you've really caught the wave - try forcing yourself to take an extra paddle and as per SS's comment push your weight forward down the face as you jump up.

[Davros]

Possibly to far out, not paddling hard enough and not staying with the speed/momentum of the wave and to straight on takeoff. i freakin hate getting caught up in lip, I'd rather miss the takeoff and go flying down the face or over the falls.

[adje]

What you describe we all go through so you ain't alone.

I've just come back from a trip to the Mentawis where not making the drop can be a bit scary on a shallow reef. I'm used to surfing beach breaks so I am not used to looking at a coral reef when I'm taking off. The consequence of this was that I had to rethink the whole takeoff thing as I was doing exactly what you describe, hesitating then heading over the falls.

So here are the three things I repeated to myself before every wave and it seemd to work:

1. Commit early. Someone above mentioned about positioning and that's crucial. But you will need to make a few mistakes before you nail positioning. I'd say it is just as important to commit early. Pick your wave when you see the set some distance away. Don't sit in too shallow otherwise you will have paddled in too far by the time it breaks. Once you've picked it paddle your butt off and don't change your mind. Any hesitation and you are gone. Even if it is closing out take off. In your mind don't give youself a choice after you have seen the set approaching and decided to go. Then you won't hesitate because you have no choice not to go.
2. Paddle hard. Harder than you can imagine you need to. This will help you get to a position where you are under the lip rather than on it. Look at some of the pros taking off in big pipeline. They are paddling so hard and explosively to get up to the speed of the wave. And most importantly, take the extra stroke. When you think you've paddled enough take one extra stroke. It will bring you down the face, under the lip rather than on it.
3. Look down the line. Don't look down. Look down the face of the wave at all times when you are paddling into it. Look where you intend to go. Be ruthless about this - you look down you go down.

Finally, board choice is important. If you are just not getting under the lip then you are probably riding a board that is too short. Borrow a board that is 4-6 inches bigger than your short board and try it out. You'll be amazed and it will build your confidence. Going over the falls on a 6'2 is much more uncool than making the takeoff on a 6'8.

Hope this helps.

[PeepeelaPew]

...

[Nick Carroll]

Hi brukuns,

from your description, I suspect you may be suffering from the very common Horizontal Paddling Syndrome.

This syndrome, from which even very good surfers also suffer (it's just that they're not exposed until the waves are really sucky and drawing hard off coral or whatever a la adje), is kind of inbuilt in the whole process of paddling and takes a conscious effort to break down.

See, when you paddle around in the lineup most of the time, you're paddling in a horizontal line, across flat or more-or-less flat water. Only very rarely do you find yourself paddling uphill (maybe up a wave face every now and then though most of the time, people don't actually paddle up waves, they tend to float up or duckdive through). 70-80% of the waves you pursue involve a kick-start horizontal paddle in front of the approaching wave face. All your paddling energy is going in a flat line toward shore.

Almost never do you find yourself paddling deliberately downhill, angling down into the trough.

Thus you never get any real practice at the one thing that's most likely to assist you in the situation you've described.

There's a few tips in here about commitment etc but developing an effective downhill paddling stroke will allow you to follow up easily on the commitment. It's quite different to the horizontal paddle technique.

To paddle downhill:

Shift a fraction further forward on the board.
Lift your upper chest slightly off the board as well. (This way your hands start the paddle stroke from a better angle).
Drive your hands forward into the paddle stroke at a steepish angle, around 45 degrees, and get 'em out quick -- don't trail your hand in the water past the line of your waist. You want it back out and up around the bottom of your rib cage.
Look at where you want to go, ie the wave base.

On a steep wave this will cause your board and body to tip down the face and drive toward the wave base.

Guaranteed, the first few times you try this, it will cause you to wipe out. You will paddle all the way down the face and nosedive at the bottom and pitchpole over the falls.

But with time and practice, you will learn to minimise the strokes and time your pop-up better. And Horizontal Paddling Syndrome will be a thing of the past.

I've got to say I have learned and re-learned this technique numerous times through my surfing life and it takes a lot of the angst out of surfing sucky critical waves. Angle down!

[Natho]

Martin Dunn teaches the 'breaking the ledge' technique in his coaching sessions. Basically he teaches that you need to learn to paddle and break through the ledge of the wave, rather than taking off behind or with the ledge. Nick's paddling tips will help you to 'break the ledge' and take off in the best part of the wave.

Learning to be quick from lying position straight to your feet is important in steep waves. Some people also just have slower reflexes than others. You can practice this on land.

[black duck]

What everyone else said plus a bucket load of commitment.
Sometimes it's better not to think too much about it. Just go as hard as you can, in the moment.

http://vincentlaforet.smugmug.com/galle ... UCcZ/Large

Watch O'Briens paddle in, it's the best part of the clip.
Vincent Laforete's footage - shot at Backdoor Pipe with one of those Red cameras strapped to a remote control mini helicopter.

[endseason]

Interesting clip,
amaze me the stance change after the takeoff....
I'm working on my foot positioning along the wave and is inspiring watch this clip:)

About the getting stuck,
I'd say that most of times is being late and wrong positioning,
i suffered it a lot,

and only increasing time in the water and trying to surf every kind of conditions really helped me (talking about average beach conditions)

[Davros]

Heres a question for waves greater than 2ft. On take off should you be looking down at the spot your going to hit your bottom turn or be looking down the line? I have a mate of mate who is always commenting on about looking down the line on take off on waves 2ft up...Ive never seem him do a driving bottom turn and he surfs flatter than a witches tit...thoughts? I have heard lamenting on the death of the bottom turn.....

[Natho]

Just in genareal, looking down the line can be a mistake. Ive always had a habit of looking down the line, not so much on take off but once Im into the wave. It taken a bit to break the habit. The issue is that if you are looking down the line, you can tend to surf too far ahead of the best part of the wave (the pocket). If you focus more on looking at the best part of the wave to surf (the pocket/ lip) the that tends to be where you will perform your manouver. So if you want to start surfing more in the pocket and off the lip, that is where you need to be looking. Where you look is where you will go.

[oldman]

Brilliant.

I was asking a similar question some time back, got varying answers similar to, but not the same, as I didn't ask exactly the same question.

So now I have in my head the technique required, some crucial points not being clearly explained previously.

The downward stroke thing is interesting Nick. I've got that in my mind now, will work on it.

As soon as the knee gets better, and the waves arrive, and the banks are conducive, and I have some time off, and the winds are right, and I don't have to take anyone to hospital, and I'm not bailing out my overlords at work from their own incestuous incompetence, and the moon is high, and the tide is right, and the mood is on, ........................

Or after xmas when I get a moment, which ever comes first.

[daryl]

and the lord's Willin
and the crick don't rise
Yes!

[brukuns]

Thanks to everyone, I really appreciate the advice.

I'm sure I can improve my technique to get over this, like Nick mentioned, but I'm also very convinced that 90% of the problem is related to me being a chicken s**t.

I'm trying to absorb as much as I can from all of the comments, but I gotta say what struck me the most were the following:

I suggest deliberately going over the falls a few times.

Don't fear going over the falls mate, embrace it, happens to everyone.

>><<

Even if it is closing out take off. In your mind don't give youself a choice after you have seen the set approaching and decided to go. Then you won't hesitate because you have no choice not to go.

Look where you intend to go. Be ruthless about this - you look down you go down.

* Shift a fraction further forward on the board.
* Lift your upper chest slightly off the board as well. (This way your hands start the paddle stroke from a better angle).
* Drive your hands forward into the paddle stroke at a steepish angle, around 45 degrees, and get 'em out quick -- don't trail your hand in the water past the line of your waist. You want it back out and up around the bottom of your rib cage.
* Look at where you want to go, ie the wave base.

Just FYI, I'm located in São Paulo, Brazil... I surf places like São Pedro and Maresias. Today is friday, and there will be consistent overhead to 2ft overhead surf tomorrow and Sunday, so I'll definitely be able to work on my fear.

no way to thank you guys enough.

Aloha!
bRUNO

[brukuns]

ok, I surfed some solid 8 footers this weekend, super hollow, many close outs... and I'm still a chicken shit.

I did manage to take off just fine on a few waves, but most of the time I was paddling and then retreating at the sight of the hollow take off... by Sunday I started felling more confident, but probably because the surf got slightly smaller (still a few 8 ft sets, but mostly 5 to 6 ft).

anywho, still a work in progress. too bad I don't live by the beach though, gotta wait for the next weekend, but no swells on the horizon for São Paulo...