Volume question

[Cpt.Caveman]

I don't mind a bit of volume either.

Its funny, I've noticed boards with a planshape designed for lift has no problem catching waves once the wave tries to pick you up, and once up to planing speed it still goes nice and fast. In these boards the volume seems to really effect paddling from A to B.

If the planshape is really curvey and rockered like most performance boards then the volume seems to be needed for both the planing speed and paddling.

[buzzy]

I heard once that Tom Curren was surfing his Merricks at 2 7/8" thick in the mid to late 80's, and he would've been around 75kg I reckon. I'm nowhere near the surfer Curren is or was, so no shame in me using boards in the 2 3/4" to 2 7/8" range.

[pridmore]

definitely no shame, I inspected one of Occs Rustys from mid 80's and it was 3", think it was 6'1" x 20", boxy rails, flat bottom, heaps of float...
I am shaping myself a newy and its 2 3/4", also have plans for a 4" thick one for summer, few tweaks and diff in design but going for max volume, now just need a snapped SUP blank, foam is ya friend

[crabmeat thompson]

I'm on the foam train.

Been surfing that 2 7/8 DHD in some juicy stuff this week. I knew the board was good in the punchless high tide shoreys, but wanted to see what it went like in something decent.

It was surprisingly nimble, held its rail on some late takeoffs and its down the line speed was to be expected. But how nimble the board was really surprised me. I never expected it.


... See a guy drowned at Angourie this week. Missed the rock off and got pinned to the shelf. Couldn't get his leggie off in time.

Makes you realise what we do for fun can have some heavy consequences.

[carvin marvin]

Take 2 shortboards both exactly the same except one is 2 1/4'' thick and the other 2 1/2'' thick.
This means the thicker board has 11% more volume.
The lighter board will sit about 2-3'' lower in the water and therefore have slower straight line speed.
Say a surfer felt the 2 1/2'' board had the right amount of volume to suit their surfing style, if the surfer could instantly lose 11% of their body weight then the 2 1/4 '' board would then feel the same and have the same straight line speed.

I really think surfboard volume should be written on all surboards.

The simplest way to get an idea of a boards volume is to note how much below water level is sits when you sit balancing it horizontal to the water surface.

When I see a board 12'' below water level I think slow surfboard.

[Cuttlefish]

To have volumes (litreage) on boards would be great.
It's a useful tool in gauging a boards floatation.
Not the be all and end all as we are all well aware.
Realistically only those using computerised shaping machines will be able to give you an accurate litreage though.
Those hand shaping still have to rely on their best guess-timate through experience? Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Unless they have a displacement tank to submerge the board and measure the volume of liquid displaced.
Sure they may have designed a board on a computer program but if they've then hand shaped the board it's back to estimation.

[kayu]

Using volume to estimate flotation will depend on the construction method of the board. Eps foam has far greater flotation for a given volume. Because of this comp/sand boards can be built leaner in volume ,and have greater flotation. Wood skinned eps boards can be heavier under your arm , but have more flotation when you get in the water , and feel lighter under foot. P/u blanks also vary in density , so will vary in your board volume.......

[Cpt.Caveman]

I still think planing speed has less to do with volume and more to do with the shape of the surfboard. Once up to planing speed volume plays far less of a role than rocker, tail planshape, foil, etc.

Just my experience from experimenting with a quite a few wide-tailed boards designed for lift that happened to be undervolumed for me, big time.

[Cuttlefish]

True enough Cptn.
It's getting them up to planing speed where the volume comes in handy for me.

[crabmeat thompson]

I've been surfing two Al Merricks this last week.

One was a 6'0" x 19 3/4 x 2 5/8 rated at 33 litres

the other

6'1" x 19 1/2 x 2 7/16 rated at 30 litres

I ended up keeping the last one as it paddled and floated better even though it was thinner with much less volume. The reason being the foam came all the way out to the rails and it had a much wider tail space than the 1st one and way less rocker ... So litres and dims are a great guideline to go off, but like CC says planshape & rocker are the key pieces of info which seem to determine everything.

[bumfluff]

I had a go on mate's 6'3" made for Margo and it was 2 7/8 thick, If I recall correctly. And I loved being a little higher out of the water. Paddling was a joy, but also turns, especially my bottom and off the lip turn.

My mate kept going on about volume, and I need to get more.

Couldn't you just roll your mate for his 6'3?

WINNING.

[alakaboo]

lower density equals higher buoyancy.
I've got boards with Surfblanks Pink, and they are more buoyant than normal PU but don't feel corky like lightweight EPS so I assume they sit somewhere between the two in density.
Mine have different construction to a normal board, though.

Wood skinned eps boards can be heavier under your arm , but have more flotation when you get in the water , and feel lighter under foot.

Same using lightweight PU...great combo.

[kayu]

......want to try a surfblank Pink !......

[carvin marvin]

Braithy.
I wonder whether Al Merrick has put the correct volume numbers on the two boards you tested.
A 3 litre difference in volume is 10% , which is alot.
And going by what you said about floatation, I cannot understand how a 30 litre board has better floatation than the 33 litre board.

Lets say that the 1'' longer length of the 2nd board equals 1 litre (think area of 1'' wide cross section from rail to rail through middle of board), and that the 1/4'' extra width of the first board equals about 1 litre (picture the area of say a 1/4'' wide wood stringer) , these 2 volumes cancel each other out so you are just left with the 3/16'' thickness difference (which is just under 8% volume difference).
You said that the 30 litre board has a flatter deck (foam going out to rail) which means more volume, plus it has a wider tail which means more volume. These 2 ingredients should bring the volume up to at least the same volume of the 33 litre board, if not more as you have observed.

[alakaboo]

I've got 2, but only ridden 1.
Both made by Huie, who has shaped a few now and has big wraps on it from a shaper's perspective. He'd be the one to ask for details.

Bit hard to comment on the durability, given that it's not normal construction so it's not a straight comparison.

My fairly clueless surfers observations are:
very lightweight and thus means you can beef up the strength in other parts of the board.
after fairly heavy use in waves of knee high to double overhead for 6 months, there are 2-3mm depressions in the deck under my back foot.
The rails are not under wood, and the foam seems to be very resilient to knocks.

I was happy enough with the performance and durability to order the same foam again for my step-up.
Fair better underfoot and through the lineup than any EPS boards I've ridden of similar volume and shape.

[crabmeat thompson]

Braithy.
I wonder whether Al Merrick has put the correct volume numbers on the two boards you tested.
A 3 litre difference in volume is 10% , which is alot.
And going by what you said about floatation, I cannot understand how a 30 litre board has better floatation than the 33 litre board.

Lets say that the 1'' longer length of the 2nd board equals 1 litre (think area of 1'' wide cross section from rail to rail through middle of board), and that the 1/4'' extra width of the first board equals about 1 litre (picture the area of say a 1/4'' wide wood stringer) , these 2 volumes cancel each other out so you are just left with the 3/16'' thickness difference (which is just under 8% volume difference).
You said that the 30 litre board has a flatter deck (foam going out to rail) which means more volume, plus it has a wider tail which means more volume. These 2 ingredients should bring the volume up to at least the same volume of the 33 litre board, if not more as you have observed.

Yeah well. Exactly what I was thinking too. Al doesn't put his volume measurements on the board. I emailed CI in cali, and that's what they said.

The Fred was 33 litres and the Dagger was 30.7 litres ... Maybe he confused the two?

[kayu]

Talkin about the litres seems to be a byproduct of the Aku shaper stuff....IMO not that important , within certain parameters...if it paddles well , it's bang on !..

[huie]

I've got 2, but only ridden 1.
Both made by Huie, who has shaped a few now and has big wraps on it from a shaper's perspective. He'd be the one to ask for details.

Bit hard to comment on the durability, given that it's not normal construction so it's not a straight comparison.

My fairly clueless surfers observations are:
very lightweight and thus means you can beef up the strength in other parts of the board.
after fairly heavy use in waves of knee high to double overhead for 6 months, there are 2-3mm depressions in the deck under my back foot.
The rails are not under wood, and the foam seems to be very resilient to knocks.

I was happy enough with the performance and durability to order the same foam again for my step-up.
Fair better underfoot and through the lineup than any EPS boards I've ridden of similar volume and shape.

ahh boo you are throwing the lemmings a curved ball here that board was made special there is a lot under the bonnet and never made for money many hrs and the right blend from go to woa. the surfblank pink is a special formula but in my h o it needs to be managed with modern laminating tech and as a 2lb core it does give a better floatation whithout the shity ep s feel

as for the vol debate it is simple whats written on the board is what the shaper has received from the cad prgrame and is meant as a good guide and reference point for the future

the hand shaper can also use the cad prgrme by acuratly puting all his numbers on file
if hes any good at it he will be able to go close to reproduce as machine

and it is a good idea for the surfer to acrue as much info about a board he like as possible

some ex amples
blank maker density what plug and rocker?
stringer and type
glassing theres a whole new world of that out there
how was the board presented to you/ did it have the f##ck sanded out of it and then covered up with some shity speed finish
its up to you guys get responsible to get yrself a board made for you its your mony

cheers huie