Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by pridmore » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:21 pm

as long as they are put in right, DGAF if they have marks, bumps or stickers ....

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by simplesimon » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:11 pm

It appears that these forums are very pro quads in general with some good information, as well as plenty of miss information floating around.

After trawling through some of the comments relating to quads, it appears many of you like them as they appear faster and to hold better. Not so many comments relating to their turning ability or lack of.

I think there may be a little confusion when it comes to the whole speed thing. No doubt that a quad set up allows a bit more freedom of water flow through the back end. But you need to ask yourself how much of the speed is due to the fact that you may be riding a flater rocker/ wider pod, as opposed to the quad set up itself. Just food for thought.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by steve shearer » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:20 pm

I'm talking about a round pin quad here SimpleS, similar dims and rocker to a normal thruster shortboard.

Not a semi-fish style thingy.

So your questions/observations are sort of irrelevant to this discussion.

Have you ridden a good wave/step up quad in solid surf?
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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:42 pm

simplesimon wrote:It appears that these forums are very pro quads in general with some good information, as well as plenty of miss information floating around.

After trawling through some of the comments relating to quads, it appears many of you like them as they appear faster and to hold better. Not so many comments relating to their turning ability or lack of.

I think there may be a little confusion when it comes to the whole speed thing. No doubt that a quad set up allows a bit more freedom of water flow through the back end. But you need to ask yourself how much of the speed is due to the fact that you may be riding a flater rocker/ wider pod, as opposed to the quad set up itself. Just food for thought.
I had an interesting experience with my first quad, a 6'0" Quadfather shaped by Mark. It was a very similar board to my last 6'0" swallow tail thruster, with lots of little tweaks here and there, and of course McKee quad set-up. The biggest difference in drive I noticed between the quad vs. thruster change was through turns. The thruster bleeds off speed through turns, where the quad drives and flows through turns. Being similar rockers and planshapes it was interesting to see the difference...

I've found turning in quads very different from board to board, and also when using different fin set-ups. I've never ridden a quad where I haven't been able to tweak the fin set-up to achieve very close pivot to a thruster. Usually by using upright front fins and smaller rear fins. There are different dynamics going on with quads to thrusters, you can't use the same sort of fin set-ups and templates and expect the same turning characteristics.
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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by Davros » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:45 pm

This blokes doing a reasonable job on a quad in half decent surf looks like a pin tail - or maybe a refined swallow. But theres hold and a little drive and lucky for him otherwise he might fall off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ri5urWCwWM

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by bohdidontsurf » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:44 pm

Always good to challenge a convention Simon but there is no doubt quads are faster. I have a board, 6'2 x 19 x 2.5. Me 39 years old and weigh 86kgs..average surfer. Some days more average than others. The board I just described can be set up as either a quad or a thruster. It is a rounded pin. Put quad fins in and it flies , put a thruster set up in and its slower... which can be a good thing depending on the waves. Same board, same dimensions but the fin set up makes the difference. I absolutely agree quads can be a bit stiffer but only marginally and I find it more noticeable on my backhand rather than my forehand. Quads have more fin area and thus more drive. Thrusters can be a bit slower but definately more pivoty. Funny thing is, Stretch Riedel, who I think is the real quadfather..wont make his quad boards as a 5 fin convertible because..its a quad...shaped that way with purpose. He will happily make a thruster for you but again wont put a set of quad fin plugs in it. He has made some shortish hybrids lately that have 5 fin convertible set ups but his pedigree thrusters and quad shapes are simply that and he wont change no matter how much you offer him or if you beg and say you will accept responsibility for it if its a dog...I know , I tried. I respect that immensely.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by pridmore » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:27 pm

I have to disagree....the real Quadfather is McKee . If years of research and trials and sticking with a design that he believed in when nobody else gave it a look in while 99% of the surfing world was totally convinced the thruster was the only board and would not consider another posibly fin configuration...
by calling one of my designs 'the Quadfather' is in a way an ode to him and his efforts with the Quad fins and also a little play on words....I also use his set up on this design ( but have 2 others for different boards depending on what is required from the board )- McKee also put his fin settings and placements on the net for all to see, he shares all of his hard work with anybody at all, that is special and uncommon, especially within the surfboard manufacturing industry...
I agree with you about Stretch sticking with only a quad or a thruster, I tell my customers that the board is designed as a quad and the front fin settings are not the same as a thruster, they make the choice, they are paying for the board, they have been fully informed...and to be honest, none of them that I know of use that board as a thruster instead of a quad, it is more of a backup for customers who arent totally convinced the quad will go well, but I look at it as an opportunity to get another surfer on a different type of surfboard, wether it be a quad ( which I do like alot ) or just something a little different and FUNctional, just to open their eyes up a bit and maybe increase their joy while surfing....Not knocking Stretch at all, I like what he does, he just isnt the main man when it comes to Quads in my eyes.... 8)

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by simplesimon » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:05 pm

Well well you are a touchy lot.
I never said quads were not faster. Im just challenging how much faster.ie take a board and set it up as a thruster. Then shape the same board and set it up as a quad. And Im not talking switching over the same board from thruster to quad because that is not comparing apples with apples. A board is either set up as a quad or a thruster.Not both. I have done this experiment a few times. I always thought quads were a fair bit faster. Doing this experiment has made me realise they may not be as fast as I thought. That's all Im saying.
As for thrusters 'bleeding off speed through turns' well it all comes down to technique and ability. Work on your technique first before writing off the thruster. Jumping to a quad to try and overcome this will not help your technique. That is only if you wish to improve your ability. Its not the thruster bleeding of speed, its either your ability or prehaps you are on the wrong board for you in the first place.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by bohdidontsurf » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:15 pm

mark it's good to disagree that's what these forums are for .. however your arguement focussed on fin settings and as you know a board is much much more than fin settings .. in my eyes stretch bought it all together .. the fin settings ( possibly borrowed from McKee .. I don't know) the planshape ... the rocker.. and importantly the construction ..eps/epoxy .. carbon etc .. look at how many big wave tow boards are stretchs.. look at how many mavericks guns are stretchs.. look at nathan Fletcher, bruce and Andy etc riding big hollow pipe on stretch's... and how many stretchs do you see in the eddy .. I think all that confirms in my mind at least that he is considered by those with more ability than you and I put together the man to go to when you want a quad that works ..appreciate your point of view but can't concur

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by pridmore » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:09 am

Stretch has done alot of those things you mentioned but you said he should be the real "QF" which gave me the impression you were meaning you thought he deserved that title for his work with the '4 fins' and their current place in surfboard design, and not the eps-epoxy and tow designs etc, both are correct in what we said really, either way both McKee and Stretch have had a large amount to do with taking quads to where they are today... 8) and I respect them both, now where are the Aussies leading the way in some designs ???

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by Quangers » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:00 pm

pridmore wrote:Stretch has done alot of those things you mentioned but you said he should be the real "QF" which gave me the impression you were meaning you thought he deserved that title for his work with the '4 fins' and their current place in surfboard design, and not the eps-epoxy and tow designs etc, both are correct in what we said really, either way both McKee and Stretch have had a large amount to do with taking quads to where they are today... 8) and I respect them both, now where are the Aussies leading the way in some designs ???
I could name one or more.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by bohdidontsurf » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:59 am

Yeah, no doubt he has put a hell of a lot of work into his recommendations re placement however I cant get my head around some of the fin combinations he comes up with...using 3 different fins at once in some cases? I havent tried it so cant really knock it but setting a board up to go left or right only seems a bit limiting to me but again if you were surfing say Jbay where you only go right it could make a difference. Dont see many of this boards around either in DVD's or other media.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by pridmore » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:40 am

if that confuses you, check out Carl Ekstrom...I love this stuff and you are right, hard to have an opinion til you' ve tried it...and I wanna try everything ....
Actually knew he was an Aussie but forgot, all innovation seems to be coming from elsewhere of late...

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by Natho » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:45 pm

I was Iistening to Maurice Cole discussing quads today and he basically summed up exactly the issues I have found myself with quads in good, bigger waves.

Quads are good down the line, but once you go to turn them, esp off the top they can cause problems in bigger, more powerful waves.

Maurice basically summed it up well by saying when you go to turn a thruster off the top and shift your weight in the direction you want to turn, the centre fin grabs and assists you in pivoting into the turn with little delay.

With a quad there is a split second delay to get the board over onto the back side fin. Doesn't sound like much but when surfing good, larger waves that split second delay and lack of quick pivot can cause all sorts of problems. Maurice was saying that this has also been the feedback he has had from Ross Clarke Jones in quad tow boards. Good down the line, but an issue through top turns.

I would imagine that in a way a rounded pin may assist in a bit more pivot .

This is not as much of a problem in smaller surf where you can get away with a bit more delay in turning your board.

on the other hand if you want to surf better waves, but just go down the line without much turning then a quad can give you great hold.

To get a bit closer to the best of both worlds you may have a quad set up where the back fins are set in closer to the stringer. In fact the best quad I have ridden and still ride to this day had that sort of set up.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by bohdidontsurf » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:25 pm

All my quads are built that way Natho...in fact that is the essence of the McKee theory, it just the back fin split. I see Dick Van Straalen boards and it makes me scratch my head. The rear fins on his quad boards shadow the front and are very close to the front fins. I have never ridden one and he has his followers but that just looks wrong to me. Certainly Dave Rastovich never seemed to have any problems on them. That set up kind of looks like a double twinny and I understand that they kind of ride similar,... very whippy. I also appreciate Ross and Maurices opinion but all surfers ride boards differently and have different abilities. One thing for sure the modern quad set up is here to stay and is not just a fad as some said it would be 5 or so years ago when they reared there heads again...reinvented of course.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by Donweather » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:30 pm

Natho wrote:To get a bit closer to the best of both worlds you may have a quad set up where the back fins are set in closer to the stringer. In fact the best quad I have ridden and still ride to this day had that sort of set up.
McKee.

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by mustkillmulloway » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:54 pm

steve shearer wrote: I think that is why we are seeing a slow but inexorable shift towards Quads in big-wave guns and step-ups.

.

nice review...i still believe u can't beat a single in big waves

if u know how ride one :roll:

i feel the whole muti fin thing is a mute point in size

than again a lot u fellas would rate a guy pumping for speed as a crtical move on a sized decent wave :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Round-tail quads Reefbreak round-up.

Post by diggerdickson » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:20 am

mustkillmulloway wrote:
steve shearer wrote: I think that is why we are seeing a slow but inexorable shift towards Quads in big-wave guns and step-ups.

.

nice review...i still believe u can't beat a single in big waves

if u know how ride one :roll:

i feel the whole muti fin thing is a mute point in size

than again a lot u fellas would rate a guy pumping for speed as a crtical move on a sized decent wave :roll: :roll: :roll:

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