High speed. Can't turn, won't turn :-(

[Toasty]

Help! I'm having trouble doing bottom turns when going really fast. I have no trouble doing turns in normal waves.

This week with this big swell I've hit the same problem again.

I take off straight, get loads of speed, start to push on my toes and lean. The board keeps going straight and I fall off, face first in the direction I was leaning It feels like the board is glued to the wave.

My only trick against this is to bleed off some speed and then turn at a more comfortable velocity.

I tried bending my knees more but it doesn't seem to help. I watched some other guys out yesterday and they all were crouching and having trouble turning so I don't think I'm the only one.

So how the hell do you turn when you are caning it? This happens on all my boards whenever I'm going very fast in a straight takeoff.

I've never read anywhere that a bottom turn is more difficult at high speeds so maybe my fundamentals are all wrong. I've googled it and found nothing. My turns seem fine on normal waves though.

[Slowman]

The same thing happens skiing. It is a matter of learning how to handle the power but still it's basic physics at high velocities inertia kicks in and the object that you are trying to turn wants to keep going in its current direction. More force is required at higher velocities. The more force you apply, one of two things happens. One is you exceed the capabilities of the board and fins and spin out (which sounds like maybe what is happening) or two one force balances the other and you masterfully turn at the bottom and set yourself up for a nice manouvre off the top or whatever.

Could be just a lack of skill/experience in power or maybe your fins just aren't up to it, or the board for that matter and you have to nurse it a bit more. I can't ever get any board to bottom turn on those flex glass or the old black plastic fins on a wave with any size. Get some carbon or fibreglass fins if you've got plastic ones and see what a difference that makes. If you've already got CF or FG fins try something like a TC redline they have a nice broad base and handle power and give you plenty of drive. Plenty of other fins that fit the bill for more powerful waves too.

[cambo]

My two cents worth:

1. the force required is the square of your velocity, so if you're going twice as fast the force required is 4 times. You *really* have to work a turn at high speed.

My feeling is you probably just aren't pushing hard enough, but also ...

2. that same force transmits via the fins so as previously mentioned, if you have small and/or flexy fins you aren't going to turn very well.

3. your board could be too wide in the tail: four times the force multiplied by a wide tail area equals a lot of resistance to anything you do - notice everybody surfing big hawaiian waves rides a pintail?

[Nick Carroll]

F**ken hell.

Toasty, the faster you go on a surfboard the less physical effort is required to successfully perform a turn.

Turning at speed isn't about muscle, it's about precise use of body weight.

Classically, most surfers develop styles and techniques that are full of holes: straining, throwing their arms around, overworking everything through uncertainty and lack of practice as very young groms.

Take that overworking and strain and pitch it against speed down the line and you get constant pilot error.

Relax and get used to the idea that it's gonna take you a very long time or a lot of very long surfs to shed the natural clumsiness that 95% of all surfers struggle with from go to whoa.

You're not alone! As you've noticed.

If you want to see some examples of precise use of body weight, check out skilled tow surfers in large surf, particularly Laird, Manoa Drollet, RCJ and a few others. They're moving four or five times faster than you've been moving yet they're controlling it with minor, barely visible weight shifts.

Bruce Irons is a good example in pretty much any surf he goes for.

[Natho]

Its interesting that many of you guys seem to blame fins for lack of performance/ skill.
Sure the right fins will make a difference, however I think people get too caught up in the whole 'blame the fins' thing. Skill and experience will always come before fin choice.
On Monday I witnessed many guys coming unstuck simply by trying too hard at speed. They were letting their body movements over power the natural turning arc of their board at speed = fall off.

[channels]

Its all in the technique..... Get on a single fin for your next five surfs and then jump back on your thruster.

NC would be a better judge but I have always thought that learning on a thruster meant that you kind of skipped a stage of your surfing development. Having said that, there's shitloads of better surfers than me who have never stepped on a singly!

[ferdy]

It could be that many guys turn with their back foot instead of using weight and angle on a turn.

I read some rant by a surf trainer who said groms should learn on a single fin before they try thrusters.

Young groms dont put power into their turns, they are always pushing the back foot and sliding around.

Try this. Take off on a wave and go straight down for as far as you can go, then lean into the wave using your weight and digging in the rail. Don't push the board around with the back foot. Standing more in the middle of the board may help with power turns.

The same goes for re-entries. Try really hitting the lip hard and getting some power off it instead of using your back foot to have the board coming back down even before you have hit the lip.

I want to see more power and less of that nancy-boy trick stuff.

turning at speed is akin to edging on a snowboard - you are just edging from one side to the other and this is where technique is essential.

/rant

[mattyd]

Commit to the turn.

Stiffer fins.

Use your rail.

Read NCs new mag "The complete guide to surfing your best" - good tips no matter how many years you've been in the water.

[SharkBoy]

here is a tip:

frontside bottom turns:

touch the water with your BACK ARM - like Tom Curren or Mick Fanning does.

backside bottom turn-

touch the water with your LEAD ARM

that'll give you a pivot point, sounds like you are just leaning down the line without pushing enough on your back foot to get the board to follow with you, if you open your body right and give yourself a pivot point, it might help

[scroopulis]

plus stick a big, fat quicksilver decal on the nose of your board......

[_cant_touch_this]

if its on your forehand, when you get to the bottom, try fading slightly before putting all that pressure into a bottom turn. far too tired to bother coming up with a scientific explanation as to why this works for me.

[pinhead]

I used to do exactly the same thing.

I don't anymore.

I think what I was doing, was thinking I would have to power off the bottom to avoid getting axed by the lip, It's like my brain was anticipating a heavy drop and was forcing me to make a big gesture with my upper body to match the criticalness of the situation so I was leaning my upper body over the rail without applying pressure with my feet, of course I would just face plant.

Running out onto the flat a bit is actually a good way to deal with it, it kind of allows you to slow down and relax and then you instincts can take over and you weight the rail with your feet and the rest of your body follows.

[munch]

ctt has sort'a touched on a snowboarding thing that I thought of when I first read this thread always keep some weight on one edge, I don't think I've listened to that advice from a few days after I first snow boarded but hey it helped for those first few days and it's a momentum/initiating turn thing as you don't know how much the edge/rail(which is much worse given the dynamic nature and how different they all are and how many turns you actually ever do on them) is going to catch when you initiate the turn and how much it's going to hold through the turn.

On a surfboard catch is a combo of the rails and fins (which there's an infinite range so :? all i can suggest is making sure your board has a edge at least a 1/3 of the way up the board), hold basically comes down to bottom contour and a bit of fin and I'm in love with the deep single to late double (may be a quad thing though) atm but hey it's your choice

[lovemuscle]

Had the some prob but got it sussed, as other people said
Waves are to big for the board
change fins, maybe smaller
move ya feet more to the rail and push

[ric_vidal]

all i can suggest is making sure your board has a edge at least a 1/3 of the way up the board), hold basically comes down to bottom contour and a bit of fin and I'm in love with the deep single to late double (may be a quad thing though) atm but hey it's your choice

Not too sure about that munchcans, think of it in a historical, or hysterical perspective.

Most of us probably had boards without such an edge in the past, single fins and probably even our early thrusters didn’t have the edge they have today. Were people spinning out or just going straight? Right, it’s about finesse as per Nickclacker’s comment.

Personally, I think I hit the flat a bit if I am over-amped. Or fall into a crumpled heap.

For what it is worth, was reading ‘The Mountain and the Wave’ (Quiksilver story) and in it they attribute Dick Brewer with the evolution of the “down’ rail. Here’s a snippet, poppet...

... Brewer gave his design a “down” rail, very different from those that had gone before. While the early mini-guns’ rails had a hard edge running almost the length of the board from tail to nose, the profile soon rounded and softened to a tucked-under edge that reduced the tendency of the board to “track” and allowed the rail to “release” making direction changes easier. Down rails quickly became the standard for all surfboards.

Been doing some ‘other’ reading next board for me could well have the same (60/40) rail from nose to tail and little or no foil in the profile wish me well. So if you see some old sh*t spinning out of control it could well be me.

[munch]

I don't think you'll be spinning out'a control just starting your turns a bit later than you normally would and getting less drive out'a them conversely. If you look at this from a hysterical point of view you'd get my drift as we get more drive now'a days look at the vid of the guy riding the egg in the soft thread, in the logs section and take note of what he says at the end

p.s I don't think foil is a important as knackered thinks it is, it defines rail thickness and that's about it for me, well vice versa actually rail thickness defines the foil

[crooked]

x axis