Little known metro spots that rarely work

[Larry]

Going by some of the responses here I'm guessing that are two standards for reporting (or writing) on lesser well known spots around Sydney.

There is a more open standard for publishing info in magazines and in giveway municipal monthlys - Names and geographics and the optional wind and swell direction are ok to print in that type of media it seems

The other standard is the one that applies here on the net - and it appears to be much stricter and less informative (care to reproduce some of your article here NC?) - and I'd put that down to the power and volume of the respondents who disagree with what's been written - nobody likes to be the butt of abuse scorn and ridicule - as Collnarra points out -

It's ok for Hynd to write and get paid for an article on Point Joe (bj) back in '99 when it was 15' and almost impossible to get out - but how was it ok for him to criticise me in the same article, for doing the same thing , on the actual day ? (I still have the photos I put up here - all 20 of 'em)

Untouchables - elitists - every sport has them

larry

[Clif]

there's a cool little reef under my place on the cliffs near lurline. doesn't really have a name. gnarly and breaks decently, well, pretty bloody rare. every1 welcome to check it everyday to see if its working. you can even name it!

these "secret spots" are secret precisely b/c they don't break very often. and when they do, as people have pointed out, they're gnarly and keep people at bay.

it seems to me the worries on the northern beaches aren't really worries at all. if you mention rockpools, most wouldn't have a clue where it is unless you provide a street or beach name, that is, unless you know already and thus don't need to be told.

too much time to think and not enuff in the water fellas? new n/e swell maybe coming next week. focus....foooooccccuuuuus

and yes, laz, hynd is the biggest hypocrite i've ever read. his articles =

but then again, aren't we all at some point.
but his elitism is delusion on a grand scale.

[Gasherbrum4]

Larry wrote:

It's ok for Hynd to write and get paid for an article on Point Joe (bj) back in '99 when it was 15' and almost impossible to get out - but how was it ok for him to criticise me in the same article, for doing the same thing , on the actual day ? (I still have the photos I put up here - all 20 of 'em)



At a guess I think it's a timing thing.....

The article of Hynd's appeared probably a month or two after the event so any 'reporting' of his didn't have any real or perceived impact on crowds, unlike your real time accounts.

He was surfing out there that weekend, you were not, so it's probably more acceptable to for him to report.

C'mon Laz nobody likes a dobber.....

[Larry]

spot on gasherB - it's all about timing - and here we are in 2005 and here is the internet and you don't have to be einstein to see what's around the corner with hundreds of thousands of live photo streaming mobiles and live unwired web updates do you ..

Strikes me that the timing thing might well mean right NOW or in an hour or two before long - the gap will shrink

laz

[Johnno]

Worlds getting smaller by the minute Laz

[BB]

Admin, you appear to have the least crowded part of the day to surf and sip lattes in so it is reasonable that those of us who don't might have a different perspective......your comments about the point are limited to the head high or less zone which you surf, what about those of us who surf the upper end of the spectrum?.....you wouldn't know 'cos you're not out there. In my judgement Real Surf has had a serious on going impact on the crowd on the real quality days.

Drawing distinctions between various parts of the media is just nit picking, who cares who's deepest in the shit? Subtle distinctions between the varieties of parasitic bottom feeders are irrelevant.

[admin]

Admin, you appear to have the least crowded part of the day to surf and sip lattes in so it is reasonable that those of us who don't might have a different perspective......your comments about the point are limited to the head high or less zone which you surf, what about those of us who surf the upper end of the spectrum?.....you wouldn't know 'cos you're not out there. In my judgement Real Surf has had a serious on going impact on the crowd on the real quality days.

Drawing distinctions between various parts of the media is just nit picking, who cares who's deepest in the shit? Subtle distinctions between the varieties of parasitic bottom feeders are irrelevant.

Yep, I can choose the least crowded part of the day to go surfing. But the point was that my reports were supposedly driving the crowds. (True I'm not that interested when the point is triple overhead, but I don't mind double days at all. ) Logically, aren't there more people likely to be intrested in fun size conditions (shoulder head high) than macking ones? And if more people are interested, shouldn't reports of said fun conditions produce more dramatic crowds?

And what about when it's already crowded when I file the first report of the day for DY? Do I get credit for the people who are in the water even as I am typing? I don't think that's fair!

As I said before, years of surfing the point on a regular basis (about 20 now...) and reporting on it regularly (about 8 now...) have never produced discernable evidence of crowd increases that in any way relate to what I do. If anything I should be a bit disappointed that my words have no ability to move crowds here and there on the northern beaches.

My guess is that we all keep an ear to the ground where swell is concerned, and the Internet helps us do that. But the crowd factors have to do with other stuff, namely increased population and the boom in surf inspired clothing etc.

This is one of my fave topics as you can tell!
-don

[Nick Carroll]

Hi wanto, I dunno about dancing around it. I'll try to make it a bit clearer.

I think it's childish and embarrassing to be coy about a surf location, it's also insulting to the reader. Better off either directly naming it or not mentioning it at all.

If you do name it, however, you should do more than name it -- you should provide context and history and credit where it's due to surfers who've come to belong there. This helps the reader understand and make sense of the place in more ways than just what sort of swell direction it's good in, and makes it clear that the spot isn't just Terra Nullius.

I can't imagine trying to hide Barrenjoey behind some ludicrous "secret spot" nickname screen, for instance, but equally can't imagine blandly telling everyone "Get up there! It's all yours".

This is drawing on a print background, for online I'm not too sure, but the US's Sean Collins (Surfline) has a good take on it all I think -- on his forecasts, he never actually names individual locations, he just gives broad details on the approaching swells, and the coastal areas they're expected to hit best. Then he leaves it up to the individual surfer to decide where and when might be best.

[loco4olas]

This is drawing on a print background, for online I'm not too sure, but the US's Sean Collins (Surfline) has a good take on it all I think -- on his forecasts, he never actually names individual locations, he just gives broad details on the approaching swells, and the coastal areas they're expected to hit best. Then he leaves it up to the individual surfer to decide where and when might be best.

Shame you didn't do the same in Pittwater Life and the S Palmy spot Nick.

I wouldn't object so much if you were out there.

And yes, I rode it that same swell.

Matt

[filthbarrel]

Agree with NC. I hardly ever read the smurf reports here. That is because they are history. And the variation in reports is so different at times that it is almost contradictory. By the time they are written the tide and/or wind has changed and the reporter has got back from an epic sesh. You can also tell when it is on because there are few reports available at 9am cause the reporters are in the water. I come here for other reasons -to collect insults and abuse is one that comes to mind and to watch others cop the same - but not for the reports.

I want to know what is going to happen in the next 7 days. I want to know period and swell size and direction and wind direction and speeds. I want to know when to cram work and when to make sure decks are clear.

Swellnet +virtual buoys provides that info. Neither mention spots. Funny that a bloke can get a dozen or more emails a week from blokes wanting to know 'where the south facing magnets in Sydney are". Sheesh.

[BB]

but I don't mind double days at all.

Ha ha ha ha ha....where are you sitting? The Basin?

[chrisb]

I in turn agree with "filthbarrel". What's posted on RS is past history and is much different to what it is NOW.

The best that one can hope for is to gather swell/wind etc predictions and collect a history of what works under what conditions.

Those "secret spots" such as the coastal golf course breaks near Maroubra will remain secret because of their inaccessibility to all but the closest living genuine locals.

Car parking restrictions and fees also limit spots such as Barrenjoey so feel free to mention it Larry. If your'e a local ratepayer, or willing to pay your carpark fees or willing to walk a long way to the surf why shouldn't you be entitled to surf Barrenjoey?

[BB]

The ethical thing to do is to provide all the data, some unlabelled photos, and let people figure it out for themselves. The notion that this site and surfit do not impact on crowds is essentially absurd. I hear the friggin' idiots in the line up talking about them frequently.......but hey it's nothing, people have been finding ways to exploit surfing for their own profit for a long time now and there really isn't much to be done except despise them....oh and remind them now and then that they are despised!

[Nick Carroll]

wanto I think it's possible to respect both. After all sometimes they're one and the same.[/quote]

[Old n Keen]

As a daily reader of the reports and being self employed and therefore able to surf when ever it is on I would make the following observations:

1) Never assume that the average person understands the insight provided by knowlegable crystal ball gazers. In otherwords, a little bit of crypic referencing to the history of a spot/swell/surfing in general is a good thing. Something Quention Tarantino might describe as "ironic narrative".

2) The young kids of today (don't you hate that saying) need to pay their dues to appreciate how and why. You are doing them a dis-servce to just provide exact answers. Life should be a "learning journey" not a this "is the answer journey".

3) How many times have you had the best surf ever in the most wrong tide/swell direction ever? Promoting a particular window as THE time to surf is re-inforcing the heavily marketed concept that there is perfection and we should discard all that is secondary in our pursuit of it. Any surfing is a gift and should be appreciated as such.

Overall, lets keep intrigue as part of the forecasting. Directional yes, but really specific, no.

PS: Surfed a spot on the east side on Saturday with 4 others for the first time. 2 of the guys had grown up and surfed the area for 25 years and never seen or surfed it? I felt like I discovered a new everest and Im 43! I would vehmently disagree with a supposition that as its in a heavily populated area we may as well out it.

[Larry]

Perhaps somebody with a little time on their hands one day may be able to design a simple metropolitan surfing matrix that once fed the data:

wind direction
wind strength
tide
swell direction
swell size
swell strength

low pressure system source
or
high pressure system source

north qtr weather system
east qtr weather system
south qtr weather system

barometer readings last two days
water temperature

and design the little bugger so that up pops collaroy / or manly / or the *****ce

doesn't sound too tough does it ? (did I leave anything out?)

laz