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Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:37 pm
by godsavetheking
Yeah well, from my (mercifully brief) encounters with Australians in the line-up, this is pretty common among your low intermediate to reasonably competent surfers typically accompanied with a taciturn sense of entitlement, so I wouldn't get on your high horses about other nationalities.
steve shearer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 pm
That may be the case for some of the incidents detailed in Nicks story. Not all, but some.
You have been very keen to cast doubt on these incidents right from the start and I'm wondering why that is. Surely a man trained in the sciences wouldn't fall into the trap of generalising from the particular or of basing his viewpoint on over-the-back-fence 'Neither my wife nor I' anecdote??
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:43 pm
by steve shearer
Just by way of contrast I had a similar experience- similar but opposite - with this Maori guy last winter.
just me and him, sun shining. Perfect 3 footers.
taking turns, having a nice chat between waves.
No hassle.
This ain't a racial issue.
No casting doubt on the incidents Godsave, I'm cautioning drawing generalisations from them........and asking for more information.
The feeling of threat.
That is quite a loaded phrase.
Are some women feeling threatened some of the time?
Most women, most of the time?
Is it everywhere or just some places?
I think scale is important......and trajectory.
Is it getting better, worse, staying the same?
Corresponding with a woman in Devon about it right now.
I'm trying to find out.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:47 pm
by Skipper
steve shearer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:16 pm
No Pants Lance wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 pm
the issue of race is a pertinant one, again, albeit beyond the framing of this 'women in the lineup' discussion.
you yourself Steve have invoked it - Euro/Israeli/Brazzo at al, hodads, whatevs, clogging up lineups in the Ments or elswhere even..
\
I honestly don't think that is a racial issue Skip.
French, Swiss, German, Austrian: they are whiter than me. It's certainly got nothing to do with the colour of their skin.
It's about different cultures having different ways of behaving in the surf and the tension that can bring about in a crowded line-up.
Hell, an uncrowded lineup.
This winter, I fluked a solo session at the local.
A backpacker paddled out. Maybe Swiss, maybe Austrian. Germanic type accent.
Just me and him.
After every single wave he hassled me for the inside position.
It was gobsmacking. He literally had no clue what he was doing.......apparently not even the common sense to realise how rude that was.
I tried to explain it to him, without success.
Which meant in effect, after he had caught his wave and paddled back to the inside of me, when the next wave came I had to look straight at him and say this one is mine. He paddled for it anyway.
It was disconcerting, we could have had the best time. I wanted to be friendly but the low level but constant stress of having this (kook, yes he surfed poorly) continually paddle up the inside precluded it.
yes, right, but we identify 'them' as 'other' . irrespective of skin colour. that don' t mean a thing.
'they' ' are of another ... race/culture.
oftentimes ill-informed about what 'we' determine correct etiquette.
whether it's in the surf zone, the sidewalk or on the party boat, there's a certain level of sheer unadulterated disrespect and obnoxiousness that, it pains me to classify as inherent to a certain race, is just a common reality. it's a huge and demonstrably spurious assumption to do so i know.
especially in this current climate of white self introspection re race and entitlement/privilege.
on the other hand, equally so, is the assumption that your average white, anglo, male surfer is an obnoxious, miscreant with misogynistic tendancies and really fcukin poor taste in music, clothing and political persuasion.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:51 pm
by steve shearer
godsavethequeen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:37 pm
Yeah well, from my (mercifully brief) encounters with Australians in the line-up,
Did you have a bad experience Godsave?
In the Maldives?
Come on, come clean.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:55 pm
by steve shearer
No Pants Lance wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:47 pm
'they' ' are of another ... race/culture.
oftentimes ill-informed about what 'we' determine correct etiquette.
Thats some murky post-modern terrain there.
You can look at it as basic respect when visiting someone elses country/city/community.
No need to invoke any racial or "other" concepts then.
I don't want to mistake the exception for the rule either....because most of the time, people from all over the world share the lineup here with no hassles and no problems.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:07 pm
by godsavetheking
steve shearer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:51 pm
godsavethequeen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:37 pm
Yeah well, from my (mercifully brief) encounters with Australians in the line-up,
Did you have a bad experience Godsave?
In the Maldives?
Come on, come clean.
There's no need to get all defensive, I didn't mean you. I'm sure you're a delight to surf with
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:11 pm
by steve shearer
No, not defensive.......you've alluded to it before, I'm keen to hear the story.
I know some Aussies can be cnuts to surf with.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:15 pm
by Beanpole
Rereading the last few pages this discussion is going around in circles and people are disagreeing with each other. However half their posts seem to be reinforcing the others observations. Classic Realsurf.
Looking at the hordes going out at Bondi this arvo as I was having a run made me decide the situation is Fcuked. That many people of many races, sexes, ages and abilities all going out to get flogged. They don't care.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:25 pm
by Skipper
steve shearer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:55 pm
No Pants Lance wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:47 pm
'they' ' are of another ... race/culture.
oftentimes ill-informed about what 'we' determine correct etiquette.
Thats some murky post-modern terrain there.
You can look at it as basic respect when visiting someone elses country/city/community.
No need to invoke any racial or "other" concepts then.
I don't want to mistake the exception for the rule either....because most of the time, people from all over the world share the lineup here with no hassles and no problems.
but it's true. irrespective of the exception or the rule.
my experience of ethnic groups in Bondi (as a case in point) and not those who visit daily, but those who either live or have extended stays here, illuminates a vast gulf in what 'we' yes, we who are mannered, respectful, culturally inclusive and accepting and non ethnically aligned or prejudiced - observe what is proprietous in public engagement. When we experience that which rubs up irksomely against what and how 'we' consider acceptable - ill mannered, self entitled boorish behaviour, of course we call it out as such, again, irrespective of nationalitly. It's endemic to all tourist destinations across the world and it may well be a mute, albeit 'post modernist' take on things, but, i'm ok to own it.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 pm
by PeepeelaPew
...
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:36 pm
by godsavetheking
steve has a degree in science
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:38 pm
by PeepeelaPew
...
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:42 pm
by Beanpole
Just to agree with Skip. Someone I work with said she went to Sculpture by the Sea foolishly on Sunday and as usual joggers were trying to run through the thousands of people shuffling around the headland. They get quite angry because they always run around there on a Sunday. Complete wankers.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:56 pm
by Skipper
beans, that is not agreeing with me. i said noting of the Sculptures shitshow, and the fcukwits who run around there during sculptures are most likely local insta/influenza types, who, when all said and done, deserve all the ill-mannered, obnoxious and boorish sidewalk behaviour any Latino, Spaniard, German, Czech, Yank or Manus escapee could summon to give them a right royal fcuk off dickhead shouldercharge.
get a grip man.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:01 pm
by Beanpole
I thought it was ironic to agree with you in a Post Modern simulacrum. I agree they deserve everything though.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:08 pm
by Skipper
yeah, right, whatever.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:47 pm
by ajohnsen
No Pants Lance wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 pm
i thought aj made some salient, albeit generalised - in the case of this thread's current issue re women in the lineup - but nonetheless broadly encompassed points.
The generalised approach was deliberate, skip, because I don't think you can talk about women in the water, in the context of Nick's article, without also acknowledging the broader discussion around misogyny and violence against women. Everyone keeps bringing it back to, yeah, but in the water I've never seen this happen, my wife this, her friends that...It's such a myopic way of looking at this issue. But that's enough from me. Last fcuking thing I want is some backwards and forwardsing thing a la Shearer/Cranked or Shearer/gstq. It gets old very fcuking quickly.
Re: Just general surfing stuff
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:23 pm
by offshore1
Legion wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:38 pm
Which field?
The lower paddock.