Just general surfing stuff

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Slobadan Madicubich
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Slobadan Madicubich » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:56 pm

i've been bullied & called a girl

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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Very hard to not have aggressive behaviours play out in front of witnesses on tbe east coast of Australia.

And i still feel very squeamish about having this issue directly conflated with domestic violence.

Violence, aggression and territoriality in surfing have been present for a long time, maybe since its inception. Whether and to what extent gender plays a role in any incidents should be treated with great care.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

Beanpole
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:16 pm

I would also like to complain about ageism in the surf. Younger, fitter and more aggressive surfers do not let me paddle inside them and take all the set waves. Not all the time anyway :-o

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godsavethequeen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by godsavethequeen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:56 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Very hard to not have aggressive behaviours play out in front of witnesses on tbe east coast of Australia.

And i still feel very squeamish about having this issue directly conflated with domestic violence.

Violence, aggression and territoriality in surfing have been present for a long time, maybe since its inception. Whether and to what extent gender plays a role in any incidents should be treated with great care.
So are you saying that the incidents reported in nick’s article aren’t gender related? If so, would you mind showing your workings please

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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:53 pm

Thats not what I said or implied Godsave.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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The Mighty Sunbird
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by The Mighty Sunbird » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:10 pm

It’s odd. Nicks random poll seems to have a 95% hit rate of abuse and threats, while a lot of people who have spent a shitload of hours in the surf over decades, myself included, have never seen such a thing
Erase.

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godsavethequeen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by godsavethequeen » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:15 pm

There we are then, never happened. Well done sunbird for exposing these evil feminist lies

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Thud
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:19 pm

I don't think anyone is being particularly defensive. I do think it's a follow up story to an incident that may not have the legs, for one reason or another.
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.

Slobadan Madicubich
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Slobadan Madicubich » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:46 pm

After opening up some of my spam emails i have become concerned for my safety and the risk i am at pf experiencing predatory sexual advances due to the number of insatiable women trying to contact me in need of sex

Beanpole
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:59 pm

I was wondering if Nick has experienced any harassment while researching these issues.

Nick Carroll
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:40 pm

No I haven't. The research has nothing to do with my surfing experience. The blunt fact is that there are many many thousands of people surfing in Australia who are having an entirely undocumented experience of the thing, and who are entirely unknown to anyone on this website. Increasingly these thousands include women. The research (it is ongoing) was triggered by the upcoming court case resulting from the Lennox incident between Mark and Jodie but is not related to it directly at all.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:56 pm

I don't doubt it's true. I've recently been deciding that in the contemporary urban surf environment all hard core surfers just make up a minority that thinks it deserves more respect than it gets from the majority of recreational surfers. This may make some people act out their misoginistic attitudes in the surf. Obviously this only gets acted out in the sort of conditions the majority of surfers surf.

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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:34 pm

jeezus Beany
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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offshore1
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:33 am

Nick Carroll wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:40 pm
No I haven't. The research has nothing to do with my surfing experience. The blunt fact is that there are many many thousands of people surfing in Australia who are having an entirely undocumented experience of the thing, and who are entirely unknown to anyone on this website. Increasingly these thousands include women. The research (it is ongoing) was triggered by the upcoming court case resulting from the Lennox incident between Mark and Jodie but is not related to it directly at all.
Yeah there are stacks of videos showing blokes having all manner of surfing related dustups.
Similarly, cellphone vids have exposed widespread egregious police malfeasance.
Can you find one example of female surf abuse we can see Nick? It really should be available.
Despite the " blunt fact of the thousands and thousands of incidents " you refer to regardless of gender, if anything, guys go out of their way to give girls a break. They smell better, they look better.

Have you ever given a chick the dreaded Carroll stinkeye before the famous Carroll Newport drop in?
Loofy's the only person known in the history of surfing to be able to stand up to that.

Nick Carroll
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:44 am

There are three separate video recordings of the incident involving Mark and Jodie at Lennox, they'll come before the court and I'm sure they will be widely seen following the hearing.

If you read my reply to Beanpole above, you will see that I did not write "thousands and thousands of incidents". I wrote the following: "The blunt fact is that there are many many thousands of people surfing in Australia who are having an entirely undocumented experience of the thing" etc. By "the thing" I mean surfing. What I'm trying to get at there is that we really don't get to see much of surfing at all, we're just surfing in relatively small groups at a small range of spots here and there through the day, and really don't know much about the vast majority of other people's surfing experiences. We THINK what we see is the whole picture, but it isn't, it's just a tiny bit.

So you have your take on what's going on here, but honestly, it's only a small take, especially when it's compared with the actual accounts of these women's experiences. It's good you're nice to people in the water offshore1, we all should be, you know #notallmen etc, but unless you'd rather just disbelieve the women who've spoken to me or subsequently write or contacted me, clearly #somemen.

Re stink eyeing women, for sure I have. No doubt. My own surfing experience, fcuk, I started surfing in 1971/2 and almost immediately was bullied by older surfers, that went on for years until I got too big and good to be bullied, so then I became a bully myself of course. My friends used to hit people or fully threaten and intimidate them, while I perfected the art of silent hostility, you know, the paddle-down on the way out, the death stare, occasionally going a bit further. The girls who surfed with us at Newport we really accepted into the gang so to speak, but I'm sure I wasn't nice to some visitor girls and there will be a few girl pros from the '80s who won't remember me kindly -- many of the boys at the time would just take waves off them in free surfs, drop in, whatever, they were seen as easy prey. My behaviour had a sort of reverse effect when I travelled, especially to Hawaii, I kind of expected the same in return and thus was very respectful and careful to earn my place in various lineups over time. But none of what I did was really OK or necessary, I don't cut myself up about it but it was not cool at all, and I don't behave that way now -- though I still feel the urge to, like a habit, I have to be conscious and rein myself in at times.

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ajohnsen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by ajohnsen » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:29 am

There's no doubt that there's a certain type of surfer who will exploit what they perceive to be weakness. That notion of weakness takes different forms - kids, kooks, race, age and gender - (as well as a combination) - and different surfers will exploit them in different ways, often informed by their existing biases.

Kids and kooks can move beyond their perceived weakness. Older surfers have, mostly, enjoyed their privilege when they were younger. Gender and race have far more sinister backgrounds that inform the reaction of the surfer experiencing the aggression. So, while the surfer who is asserting his perceived rights - as a local or because of experience - may think that all surfers are equal and that his threats are similarly so, he is either willfully ignorant of these other factors at play, or worse, exploiting them.

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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:34 am

I very much doubt the women surfers in this area would be comfortable with a man telling them their experience of being female in the surf has a "sinister background".

with respect AJ, thats a nonsense attitude that belongs in the 60's.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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ajohnsen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by ajohnsen » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:41 am

steve shearer wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:34 am
I very much doubt the women surfers in this area would be comfortable with a man telling them their experience of being female in the surf has a "sinister background".

with respect AJ, thats a nonsense attitude that belongs in the 60's.
Beginning a sentence 'with respect' always implies the exact opposite. Look beyond the use of that single word, whether or not you agree with it, otherwise, and with no respect whatsoever, you are simply picking an argument, as is your wont.

I would suggest that people who are subjected to either sexism or racism would not be comfortable with a white middle-aged man, telling them that the background is NOT sinister. Oh, and in case you misunderstood, I am talking in a broad and historic sense, not just surfing.

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