Help > Another Mad Development.

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Beanpole
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Beanpole » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:16 am

My mum's place used to be next to marshy farmland at the back of Kingscliff and the land behind used to be owned by an american doctor for years and years. According to the real estate shark the doc was always spewing because local council wanted him to include some parkland in his proposed development. It was on a floodplain, it had lots of native animals and even if the prick built it the addition of a park would have enhanced his development. He just wanted the money.

Of course Tweed Council got rolled by the developers and the flunkies they put in ended up being sacked for corruption. That was when all those big developments happened out towards Cabarita. That stretch of coast always looked set for it after the sand mining finished. I was surprised it took so long. I'm surprised everyone bags out Byron Council because theyre at the forefront of saving the coastal areas from over development.

The trouble is everyone wants to retire to the coast. Then they wonder why they have to travel hundreds of kilometers to get any medical service when they get sick. People expect the government to supply the same level of services in whoop whoop by the sea as Royal North Shore. Oh hang on they do :D

Welcom back Johnno.

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ajohnsen
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by ajohnsen » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:28 am

Done.

Thanks for posting, Johnno.

AJ

Johnno
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:52 am

Beanpole wrote: I'm surprised everyone bags out Byron Council because theyre at the forefront of saving the coastal areas from over development.
Welcom back Johnno.
Thanks mate and just on Bryon a lot is about to happen there too. The old golf club is going to be turned into time share accommodation and work has started( how times have changed >>>> 40 years ago you would have ppl chaining themselves to trees ect). Also the land opposite the BP service station when you drive into Bryon is going to be developed for housing and that is not a bad thing as the land is suitable for housing but council has a major traffic problem now so they need to work out another route into Bryon or you will be queuing up for an hour just to get into the CBD. Just try and get into town now when the markets are on.

But with Bryon it has already allowed to many homes to be built along the beach ( Belongil) and council is in a bit of bother as they maybe taken to court by residents regarding them putting in the sea wall in-front of the Beachy which they argue is causing erosion further up the beach.

Bryons biggest problem is that they have a population of 30,000 but with visitors numbers over 2 million go though the place each year has a big impact on infrastructure. A lot of locals want council to bring in a bed tax but council won't due to lobbing from the accommodation providers.

So unfortunately council doesn't have the money for upgrades and ratepayers can't afford the increases. Sure you do have a lot of wealthy ppl in Bryon but most are just workers on the min wage being a country town. And quite a few are moving to Mullum as they can no longer affort to live in Bryon anymore.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:54 am

ajohnsen wrote:Done.

Thanks for posting, Johnno.

AJ
Thanks much appreciated :wink:

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by alakaboo » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:20 am

Johnno wrote:But with Bryon it has already allowed to many homes to be built along the beach ( Belongil) and council is in a bit of bother as they maybe taken to court by residents regarding them putting in the sea wall in-front of the Beachy which they argue is causing erosion further up the beach.
The Belongil issue is fairly complex, it's worth reading through some of the court transcripts. Probably shouldn't say too much more, except that the reporting of the decisions and cases and the actual events don't necessarily align perfectly.
Johnno wrote:Bryons biggest problem is that they have a population of 30,000 but with visitors numbers over 2 million go though the place each year has a big impact on infrastructure. A lot of locals want council to bring in a bed tax but council won't due to lobbing from the accommodation providers.
So unfortunately council doesn't have the money for upgrades and ratepayers can't afford the increases.
that's a problem all over the place, even in Sydney with councils having budgets of over $100million p.a.
Scrapping the NSW bed tax with the introduction of the GST was a bad call.

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oldman
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by oldman » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:44 am

alakaboo wrote:unfortunately, and surprisingly, i agree with everything fong just wrote.
I better go have a lie down.
Gawd help us. Me too. I'm calling in sick.
alakaboo wrote:The Belongil issue is fairly complex, it's worth reading through some of the court transcripts. Probably shouldn't say too much more, except that the reporting of the decisions and cases and the actual events don't necessarily align perfectly.
Mate I'd love to hear your point of view on this. Been following this very closely as my family own a house in coastal area where council stupidity going back 4 or 5 decades have directly impacted on erosion, leaving houses vulnerable. (not ours, probably not for another 50 years, but neighbours could go under any time)

It will all end in tears. You say that the reporting of the decisions doesn't align with reality, but from recollection I think the owners have kicked the council's brains in every time it went to court.

And I was pretty sure that academic studies fully support the owners' contention that building the rock wall at Byron directly affects the levels of erosion at Belongil.

What are you free to say (or pm me some of the more dire concerns!)

Cheers
Lucky Al wrote:You could call your elbows borogoves, and your knees bandersnatches, and go whiffling through the tulgey woods north of narrabeen, burbling as you came.

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oldman
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by oldman » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:50 am

BTW, best of luck Johnno.

Pretty pointless contacting any Labor member in NSW. Planning is a better idea. I'll send off an email today.

We're in a sorry state when we have to hope for a Liberal govt to protect us from big business and developers.

Planning approvals are the absolute pointy end of the worst corruption in Australia. Use to be just local councils until Labor decided that the state govt should get in on the act. Much more efficient that way. :(
Lucky Al wrote:You could call your elbows borogoves, and your knees bandersnatches, and go whiffling through the tulgey woods north of narrabeen, burbling as you came.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by alakaboo » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:40 am

oldman wrote:Mate I'd love to hear your point of view on this. Been following this very closely as my family own a house in coastal area where council stupidity going back 4 or 5 decades have directly impacted on erosion, leaving houses vulnerable. (not ours, probably not for another 50 years, but neighbours could go under any time)
It will all end in tears. You say that the reporting of the decisions doesn't align with reality, but from recollection I think the owners have kicked the council's brains in every time it went to court.
And I was pretty sure that academic studies fully support the owners' contention that building the rock wall at Byron directly affects the levels of erosion at Belongil.
Grrr, just wrote a decent reply and had a browser crash.
Don't have the time to rewrite it, I've already spent too much time away from something that is well overdue.
So, here's the very quick summary. I'd also like to point out that I am neither a coastal engineer or an environmental lawyer, though I work closely with both.

The seawall at Byron definitely contributes to the issues at Belongil, in that it reduces the movement of sand. The wall is also subject to some structural concerns because the rocks are too small and jagged. There is some talk of removing the groyne to minimise sand capture.

but the Land and Environment Court ruling was mainly on 2 factors:
failure by the Byron Council to maintain a geotextile bag wall at Belongil, which was designed in part to offset the downdrift impacts of the seawall. they now have to maintain or replace it, although there is no clear direction on the best way to do this, because the sandbag wall is now destroyed, and work in front of 1 property would affect other properties.
AND
an injunction sought by the BSC to stop the respondent from undertaking emergency works themselves. they now have this right, but not a requirement. there are also restrictions placed on what they wanted to do.

It essentially hinged on the conditions of the development consent the council granted itself in 2001 regarding construction of the sandbag wall.
I had the pleasure of sitting in on the court case ( one of them), and much of the debate was about whether a sandbag wall was built to design height, given that the sandbags aren't as high when they are wet as when they are dry...

The decision doesn't set the precent many think it does, as it only applies to the development consent conditions of the specific existing works, and had nothing to do with the policy of planned retreat.

In their infinite wisdom, the State Govt has now effectively quashed the policy anyway, because it isn't ratifying their coastal zone management plan, and it has introduced amendments to the coastal protection act that allow for residents to protect their properties from erosion in the event of emergencies. this includes allowing access to public land, such as parking earthmoving equipment on the beach during erosion events...
the technical requirements are such that it would be very hard to implement, however...

The effect of the seawall is the subject of a new case brought by Belongil residents against council, which could be a watershed issue for the region. I gather that it's in response to the recent 50% drop in land values in the area due in part to uncertainty about the policy of planned retreat (though probably more due to impacts of the GFC on the residents...)
http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-ne ... 19lg4.html
There will be much debate as to the cause of the erosion at Belongil, and the part the seawall played.

have to get back to work now, if you have questions about your specific area I may be able to answer them in a few days/weeks time.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Beanpole » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:29 pm

Friday's Herald had a letter from someone stating that in the seventies engineers had been informed the sand is actually captured off the point and that erosion has been going on for thousands of years in that area. If you look at Boomerang Beach near Foster all those houses on the dunes have to be dismantleable.

I'm surprised they could build at Belongil in the first place. The trouble is that the effects of building retaining walls may create ongoing problems.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by alakaboo » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:03 pm

the location of sand off Cape Byron has been fairly well studied.
There are some figures in there about the impact of the pool seawall.
http://www.byron.nsw.gov.au/publication ... -sand-lobe
Beanpole wrote:If you look at Boomerang Beach near Foster all those houses on the dunes have to be dismantleable.
Same with Belongil, at least for houses built since 1988. Houses have to be removed or demolished once a trigger value is reached.
Some of them are on skids, some can be put on the back of a truck.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:24 pm

oldman wrote:BTW, best of luck Johnno.
I'll send off an email today. :(
Thanks mate every one helps everyone counts .... :wink:

Also thanks alakaboo for your comments here as this thread is about something that a developer wants to see happen even though reason, science and commonsense cannot justify this development.

As you have pointed out with all the problems in Bryon just what ends up happening >>>> cash strapped councils and ratepayers end up footing the bill. Just one vicious cycle but the ones that should be held accountable eg the developer and the actual people that approved these developments are long gone even thought they should be held accountable. Unfortunately this is happening right around the country.

So I hope that with everyones help here along with what is happening in my local area that this development only ends up being just for 35 homes.

Also hope the Planning Minister realizes that he is responsible not for the developer but for the people that end up living within the development.

Cheers Johnno

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lessormore
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by lessormore » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:23 pm

Just hope it doesn't get as far as this abomination before it falls through!
http://www.greatlakesadvocate.com.au/ne ... 49085.aspx
Just when you thought life couldn't get any worse-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUfKnqv2C3k

Johnno
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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:54 am

Heres a little something that you may like to look at as it's not only at my local area but anywhere you like -

http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=-27.8390, ... 0&z=13&m=7

Can't see sea levels raising 14m but I would be able to rock of from the bottom of my driveway and at around 12m would have a pretty sick left hander running past my place :lol:

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by alakaboo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:28 am

johnno, you'll be waiting a while for that rock off :!:
even the complete collapse of the west antarctic and greenland ice shelves would only get you about 13m, and that aint gonna happen in the next few years. Or decades, centuries etc... hope you're eating your omega 3s and lots of fibre.
Johnno wrote:reason, science and commonsense cannot justify this development.
as with many others.
"Dollars are worth more than sense."
I got so sick of having good science and environmental policy disregarded in planning decisions that I just spent the last 4 years teaching myself environmental economics so that I am at least speaking the same language.

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:28 pm

alakaboo wrote:johnno, you'll be waiting a while for that rock off :!:
Yeah I know but just looked good :lol:
alakaboo wrote:"Dollars are worth more than sense."
I got so sick of having good science and environmental policy disregarded in planning decisions that I just spent the last 4 years teaching myself environmental economics so that I am at least speaking the same language.
Well lets just see after mud has dried in Qld as your efforts may not be entirely wasted ........... :idea:

Whats the chances of a class action being taken out against the Qld Government by all the ppl living down stream of the wivanhoe dam they have pretty good case with :arrow:

1. Being told over the past 35 years that they would never see a flood and the authorities have approved developments on that assumption.

2. The authorities where warned El nina was at it's highest point ever seen and that drought breaking rains where coming up to 6 mths before hand.

3.That the authorities didn't start releasing water until the dam was 190% fall and only started releasing water from the overflow dam when it was fall. The river below was swollen with areas already starting to flood.

Could see a few lawyers making dollars out of those sense :wink:

And the Qld premier has already stated that any rebuild will be scrutinized and some areas may not be allowed to be rebuilt. To a degree this will set a precedent for all Australia regarding planning.

Just hope Tony Kelly is paying attention !!!!

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:50 pm

Just to let everyone here know we have organised a Jampact Jamsession and Hearnes Lake Awareness day to take place at the Seaview Tavern in Woolgoolga from 1pm to 5pm on Australia Day.
In between brackets we will be presenting guest speakers to talk about what happening at Hearnes.

We will also be passing a bucket around for donations to help support our fight to save Hearnes Lake.

Anyone interested in trying to help and can't make the gig please send an email to Tony Kelly of your disapprove of this development to >>>>
The Hon Tony Kelly MLC
NSW Minister for Planning
Email – [email protected]

Power to the people ................ :wink:

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:21 pm

Seems Tony Kelly may be working on his retirement as it looks as though one of the final rotten acts of the NSW Planning Minister Tony Kelly may be to approve 300 houses in the South Moonee Forest as a Part 3A development.

Some key points about this single parcel of land that is approximately 100 hectares in area:
* It provides habitat for over 25 threatened species including the Critically Endangered Swift Parrot and Regent Honeyeater (this is the only site at which both birds are known together on the NSW North Coast)
* It contains 8 Endangered Ecological Communities - this is a record for a single privately owned parcel of land in NSW
* It contains very important parts of the Solitary Islands Marine Park - namely the southern tributaries of Moonee Creek
* It is completely forested and a very important carbon sink
* It contains unique vegetation communities not protected in conservation reserves.

There is no need for the Minister to approve this development as there is lots of land already on the market at Moonee Beach. Over 700 more lots are ready for the market at Moonee Beach alone, most of them having no bushland on them. Across the Coffs Harbour Local Government Area there is an abundance of cleared land that is highly suitable for residential development.

The South Moonee Forest is the kidneys of the Solitary Islands Marine Park, it is also one of the last remaining "greenbelts" on the Northern Beaches of Coffs Harbour. This one parcel of 100 or so hectares contains more biodiversity than hundreds of thousands of hectares on the Western Plains of NSW. It is far too important to be concreted over.

Please spread the word and bombard Tony Kelly's office with phone calls, faxes and emails saying that enough is enough (link below has contact details for Minister Office). Hearnes Lake was a massive planning blunder, but the approval of 300 houses at South Moonee Forest is an even greater crime against humanity and our life support systems. :twisted: :evil:

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/p ... 2E0002E1DC

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Re: Help > Another Mad Development.

Post by Johnno » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:01 pm

Just a bit of an update as it seems that someone that may have invested in this is starting to get nervous as this was on the front page of the local paper yesterday. :arrow:

Death threat for councillor - http://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/st ... ffs-coast/

Also has anyone heard of the Commonwealth of Australia Civil Authority ???????

I have done a google and found nothing on them as they have sent a letter ( http://hughsaddleton.com.au/?p=2577#more-2577 ) to the Minister for Planning, Tony Kelly.

Cheers Johnno

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