The Floods

[steve shearer]

Fcuking hell this place is turning into a shittpit of right wing whinging cnuts.

Pull your snouts out of the Murdoch press and nightly news and take a look around the World.

By any global measure we have dealt with these natural disasters unbelievably well.

Anna has done a fcuking brilliant job keeping people informed and getting the reconstruction under way.

You cnuts are whinging about a dollar a day like some fcukking pommie caught out in a hot day without his handkerchief wrapped on his head.

By any measure Australia right now is without doubt the greatest place to have lived ever in the history of humanity: to listen to the pathetic whinging cnuts in here, you'd think Pol Pot was in charge and we were being forced at gunpoint into the Killing Fields every day.

Guess what: Democracy is not a perfect system.

It doesn't matter if extra payments go out. Guess where that money goes? Straight back into the economy.
Guess where the money went from the stimulus packages and the BER and insulation schemes.

Australia avoided recession and we've got the best life on the Planet.

Go check your pots, hug your kids, throw one into your missus, have a surf and while your there: SMELL THE FCUKING ROSES and realise how lucky you are.

[oldman]

10 out of 10 Steve.

Shearer for El Presidente!!!!

[lessormore]

10 out of 10 Steve.

Shearer for El Presidente!!!!

Sorry,i'd give that job to Anna B.I don't think we've had a leader who can communicate like her since RJLHawke.
Listening to Gillard speaking after her was painfull.
In all of the press conferences I saw, I can't ever remember her not being able to spell out facts on any subject thrown at her, and to deal with the biggest weather event in a hundred years (Yasi)and have minimal loss of life was exemplary.

[Trev]

QBE offered full flood insurance to qld'ers I have read, and Suncorp also. Someone can correct me on that, but reports are that insurance was available.

All Suncorp policy holders are automatically covered.

[Trev]

^^^^^^^^
Shit Shearer, that's exactly what I've been trying to say on here for years.
But you said it better.

[Johnno]

You cnuts are whinging about a dollar a day like some fcukking pommie caught out in a hot day without his handkerchief wrapped on his head.

By any measure Australia right now is without doubt the greatest place to have lived ever in the history of humanity: to listen to the pathetic whinging cnuts in here, you'd think Pol Pot was in charge and we were being forced at gunpoint into the Killing Fields every day.

So Steve you have no problems rebuilding in the same locations so the same thing will happen again as this is what my beef is all about mate.

Why should suburbs in Brisbane that continually flood be rebuild? What is the point ???? Yes ppl need somewhere to live but why must we put them in harms way that would be something that Pol Pot would do.

Would it not be better to use the science and technology to crate a more sustainable environment for ppl to live, safe in the knowledge that this won't happen again.

Some of Brisbane's suburbs should not be rebuilt but dozed and left as open space. With the money that will be raised would it not be a little wiser this time around to add a few conditions so that we are investing in the future for future generations????

But no what will happen is that will see the same dumb planning decisions being made so we will go down the same path and see the same result.

Have no problem helping out if it's for the good of the people just have a problem with giving people false hope which a lot of this money from the levy will do. Yes it will go back into the economy but through the pockets of preferred contractors ect as that is the Qld way....

[Trev]

Yes it will go back into the economy but through the pockets of preferred contractors ect as that is the Qld way....

Nononono!
That's not fair. The preferred conttactors only get the government business.
And people in glass houses etc. Come on Johnno. You're in NSW for God's sake.

In all honesty, I admire your suggestion about what to do with flood prone land, however I think it's too altruistic. Whilst I'm happy to be corrected by someone with accurate figures to hand, I suspect the cost would be horrendous to the point of being unviable.
After all, there's not a city (or town) in Australia which doesn't have a largish segment of flood prone land settled by suburbia. - Well, I would have picked Toowoomba until a couple of weeks ago.
So, my point is. Where do you draw the line?

[boogaloo]

And while I think of it, just how many ground zeros are there?

One: Hiroshima

[Johnno]

Nononono!
That's not fair. The preferred conttactors only get the government business.
And people in glass houses etc. Come on Johnno. You're in NSW for God's sake.

I know NSW taught them ...........

In all honesty, I admire your suggestion about what to do with flood prone land, however I think it's too altruistic.
So, my point is. Where do you draw the line?

Well we could draw the line with suburbs that will suffer from inundation on present projections in 2050 (something that federal, state and councils are sitting on and not letting too may know about) which is only 39 years away and maybe 1 or 2 floods like we have just seen......

Or you could go the whole hog and work on what the levels will be in 2100.

After all, there's not a city (or town) in Australia which doesn't have a largish segment of flood prone land settled by suburbia. - Well, I would have picked Toowoomba until a couple of weeks ago.
So, my point is. Where do you draw the line?

Yeah going on current projections a lot of places will be suffering from inundation in 40 years time.......

[channels]

I think the avenue of compulsory house insurance (much akin to vehicle greenslips), needs to be explored....

If i was an insurance company, i don't think i would insure structures built on a proven flood plan fullstop (Subaru WRX young driver scenario..). Why would i accept less than $1K per year for a policy if i'm liable to pay out say $150-400K every 30 or so years? I doesn't make sense and is a bad business decision (shareholders have every right to question the practice). Adds a spin on the compulsory thought above - who'd take it on?

Re the insurance, I think it is inevitable that there will have to be some sort of insurance company and government cooperation (similar to the Territoty Insurance Office set up after Cyclone Tracey) set up. Otherwise this exact situation plays out where insurance is impossible to obtain at non-exorbitant prices...

[channels]

[. Honestly, of the hundreds of comments on a SMH article last week, only a handful were in favour of the levy. Those that weren't, displayed such loathing and disgust for the Government that you'd think they were being asked to fund a military takeover of some island inhabited by tiny rabbit people covered in soft fawn down who don't know what it is to not smile.

It was the over-reaction that made me wonder what sort of people we are? I mean, if you've already donated (and do we need to consider the size of the donation?) is it really so bad to be asked to chuck in a bit more? Is it worth getting so het up about?

.

i think and i have nothin back me up....we are a over taxed nation....the goverment asking for yet more, yet again, was a straw that broke the back

p.s why do i have pay help people who can afford buy a house i can't, have a car i can't afford, but choose not have insurence :?

Careful Fong, that's the road to America where people complain that the government doesn't look after them and fight like mad against paying any extra tax. Dumb fcuks. Someone ought to tell 'em that it's taxes what funds sh*t like health, edumacation, roads and so and so forth. Oh, but that's socialism, communism, Marxism, cappucinoism, they'll argue.

As for the people who chose not to have insurance? Sure, there are some who made that choice, but there are a bunch who did take out insurance but are being stiffed.

You are correct Fong that we are one of the most taxed nations but it's a slippery slope. You tax less and become anti government etc and you start having the problems that America has. I know what I would rather! Having said that the situation is getting better, have a look at what tax you were paying in the late 80's or early 90's plus hidden wholesale sales taxes...things are a lot rosier now on that front

[Skipper]

You'll have to excuse me here, but what's a bit of self aggrandisement amongst comrades on the piss


quote="skipper"] We've had it/got it,  too good, and just baulk the moment we're asked to put out that little bit more. 
For fcuk's sake, $1/p/w per $50k earned. Jeeeezus.  What's that a sacrifice of. The sugar in most fatty's skim caps!  
I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that we are at heart a measly bunch, but I reckon most of the whinging about this tax is coming from the so self interested
disenfranchised classes. The haven't got enough's. Screen not big enough. Car not latest enough. Shoes not sexy enough. What , Domino's again mum! class. 
Meanwhile $$$ for the rest of the hugely consumptive lifestyle gets dished out no questions asked.  
Just saying.    [/quote]


Just said Shep.

Fcuking hell this place is turning into a shittpit of right wing whinging cnuts.

Pull your snouts out of the Murdoch press and nightly news and take a look around the World.

oops, a little tipsy


By any global measure we have dealt with these natural disasters unbelievably well.

Anna has done a fcuking brilliant job keeping people informed and getting the reconstruction under way.

You cnuts are whinging about a dollar a day like some fcukking pommie caught out in a hot day without his handkerchief wrapped on his head.

By any measure Australia right now is without doubt the greatest place to have lived ever in the history of humanity: to listen to the pathetic whinging cnuts in here, you'd think Pol Pot was in charge and we were being forced at gunpoint into the Killing Fields every day.

Guess what: Democracy is not a perfect system.

All good by me so far......

It doesn't matter if extra payments go out. Guess where that money goes? Straight back into the economy.
Guess where the money went from the stimulus packages and the BER and insulation schemes.

er.... Gerry fcuken Harvey, Nissan Na fcuken Varra....

Australia avoided recession and we've got the best life on the Planet.

A fcuken men!

Go check your pots, hug your kids, throw one into your missus, have a surf and while your there: SMELL THE FCUKING ROSES and realise how lucky you are.

Unless while you're 'there', a backpacken' wench's sanitary napkin floats by......
'ts ok, she would have bought it locally.

[alakaboo]

Steve, support for the rebuilding efforts and support for the levy are different things, at least for me.
I'm quite happy for my tax dollars to be spent, but I don't think it's good policy or good politics to fund disaster relief from levies.
Why this event? What makes it special? It isn't the first, it won't be the last. Why wasn't something similar done for the Newcastle floods?

It's just not well thought out.

Why should suburbs in Brisbane that continually flood be rebuild?

Johnno, I agree with most of what you say, but I think you've gone a bit rabid. Most places that flooded, meaning the buildings and not just the land, probably wouldn't have flooded in 25 years. People I know were flooded out of their retirement village in a place that is more than a km from the river.

Whilst I have no doubt that planning and development approvals contributed to the number of properties damaged, the reality is that most flood planning is fairly well done. In fact it's one area where the planning and science are fairly well integrated.

You mention in another post that the govt. is sitting on inundation maps relating to SLR. Whilst to some extent that's true, in terms of the property-level detail, the maps that have been released largely show that the threatened areas are golf courses, public parks, and areas that won't be badly affected. e.g. http://www.ozcoasts.org.au/climate/Map_ ... _map_8.jpg

There are exceptions to this, and some areas which will face some very difficult decisions over the next decade, but we don't live in Bangladesh. As Steve pointed out, we live in a wealthy country and we have technological prowess in many of the areas which will be needed.
Some political will and long-sighted planning decisions wouldn't go astray though...

[Damage]

Yeah going on current projections a lot of places will be suffering from inundation in 40 years time.......

Is this confusing rising sea levels with flooding? I think you have gone a bit rabid Johnno.

Trev asks where we draw the line, the commonly accepted standard for flood proofing new development is the 1 in 100 yr mark. The line is already drawn. Unfortunately this means that when you get a 1 in 200 year event you are still in the shit.

Did you know that residential houses are only designed to last 50 years? Hospitals and major infrastructure generally 100 years.


Alkboo: I think your anti-levy reasoning is pretty thin. Newcastle didn't have a levy because the flood was essentially just in Newcastle. A localised flooding event. What happened in Qld was damn near state wide and the damage/repair bill is several orders of magnitude higher that what it was for Newie.

Comprende vous?

[oldman]

You are correct Fong that we are one of the most taxed nations but it's a slippery slope. You tax less and become anti government etc and you start having the problems that America has.

Not really. Most studies have Australia middle of the road for overall tax rates. Hard to compare, but which ever way you measure, Oz still seems to come out middle of the road. See here http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_t ... -as-of-gdp

Check out USA, where overall tax rates are marginally lower, and compare with the social services and 'safety net' that applies in Oz compared to US, which Clay is alluding to.

We look pretty damn clever on international comparisons.

[alakaboo]

Alkboo: I think your anti-levy reasoning is pretty thin. Newcastle didn't have a levy because the flood was essentially just in Newcastle. A localised flooding event. What happened in Qld was damn near state wide and the damage/repair bill is several orders of magnitude higher that what it was for Newie.

Comprende vous?

alright, my example might not have been a good one, but the argument stands.
It's not going to stop happening. With increases in development and land values, losses will only increase. A one-off levy is a dumb option.
Make it an explicit and permanent part of the budget. We should have a war chest for just this type of eventuality.

Damage to infrastructure might be the only argument I'd accept. In terms of losses, it isn't really up there.
The top 10 insurance events in Australia, normalised for inflation, include a lot of hailstorms and the Newcastle earthquake. I've seen modelling done by the insurance industry of a worst case scenario for another Sydney hailstorm, with hailstones the size of grapefruit, and in dollar terms it sh!ts all over the Qld floods.
And that doesn't even come close to the worst case scenario for cyclones, which has a Category 5 making landfall on the Central Qld coast and tracking along the coast to the Sunny Coast.

[Damage]

alright, my example might not have been a good one,

Think of me as the thought police to fair points with poorly constructed arguements to support them.

The top 10 insurance events in Australia.....

Let see the numbers then big fella. 1 to 10 please.

Anyway, most of the qld flood damage is not covered by insurance so isn't that a bit of an apples and oranges arguement? (ie a hailstorm is > THAT's why theirs a flood levy as much as anything no?)

It's not going to stop happening.

What, natural disasters that affect half the state? On what basis do you say this?

PS; Dont' get me wrong, I'm enjoying your input.

[oldman]

Damage to infrastructure might be the only argument I'd accept.

Ok then. The flood levy is directly to pay for damage to infrastructure. (It is, haven't you been reading the reports.

The donations are for the people affected.

The govt should have hit up the banks and the miners. That mining tax should be implemented in full, not the amended one, the full bottle original, and some of the proceeds put towards a 'reconstruction' fund.

Banks super profits tax as well. This government has no imagination and no sense of how to use circumstances to their advantage.