Andy Irons Dies

[steve shearer]

(NB. Its funny that Brodie won't speak to Shearer or Pawle but will speak to to people on the "inside" and not the "outside")
It's all about press releases and not journalism....

Thats incorrect Jimmy.

Brodie was extremely forthcoming with me and gave a long interview about the ASP and it's current directions.

I've found him to be very candid and transparent.

(which doesn't mean I agree with the current direction of the ASP).

[2nd Reef]

My point is and has always been that everyone in the industry and a lot of people who aren't knew about Andy's problems and no one stepped up to the plate to help.. The people who knew effectively enabled that behaviour

That's a pretty big claim you're throwing around Jimmy. How do you know no-one stepped up?

It's not the sort of thing friends would be rushing off to tell the media, even moreso if the intervention/rehab/counselling didn't work. Further, Billabong don't speak out of class about anything, not just AI's death. Last year I spent a lot of time speaking to a person in Billabong researching a story on ethical manufacturing. He was in media and told me from the outset that Billabong might put the kybosh on the story and, as it happened, they did.

Point being: they keep everything in house. They aren't going to speak to journalists about one of their surfers' shortcomings and I doubt that AI (if he were alive) would either.

So, again, how do you know no-one stepped up? You put a lot of shit on journalists but seem to be making some baseless claims yourself. Something that no journalist of integrity would do.

[bohdidontsurf]

sincerely Jimmy if you cleaned your act up .. particularly to be more responsible for a child that is sincerely admirable .. but don't assume your addiction or abuse was/ is the same as everyone elses .. people take drugs of all kinds for all different reasons .. so because you slayed your dragons don't get all righteous and start firing off "should haves" to others.. as you will no doubt admit .. you're no saint yourself !! I am no expert but my experience is that drug abusers ( as opposed to occasional users ) have had something traumatic ( at least to them) happen in their lives and they have not let it go .. .. not always but mostly ( remember .. just my experience) .. ultimately altered states are attempts at coping mechanisms .. and while you and I may look at AI and say WTF would he have to " cope " with .. we did not live in his head . He was after all legitimately bi polar.

If you had any balls at all you would go back through the crap you posted here and humbly apologize for fingering the people you have .. but I won't hold my breath

[oldman]

Do the general public expect transparency from journalists any more? Setting aside independant websites basically all print media is part of the machine. How is surfing any different? Far as I'm concerned billabong may as well be newscorp in terms of it's dissemination of objectivity.

Yeah, exactly.

Never really surfed when charging on speed but that and maybe coke would be the two obvious contenders for performance enhancement just like every other sport.

True, obvious contenders, but I don't buy it. Energy levels peaking, sure that would help. A little bit fearless, couldn't hurt either.

But they are facing pretty damned fit competitors, so I'm not sure that energy levels would account for wins and losses. Fearlessness, while good for you and me out there, would rarely be a factor in pro surfing you'd have to think. Teahupo, sure, pipe, yep, on their days, but did Andy really need them to get fearless?

So what drugs would help? I say none. Enlighten me.

[spongeInside]

So what drugs would help? I say none. Enlighten me.

I'm not getting into this whole blame game re AI.. but just as a direct response to your question I reckon Clenbuterol might help, but then again, and as you mentioned, their competitors are damned fit anyway. In saying that, Clen wouldn't have any of the psychological effects the other drugs would have.. I don't think it would contribute to anyone's death either (unless via an enlarged heart, but that would take years and is not a proven side-effect)

[oldman]

So with your experience you’re no more qualified than i to give a just account of the advantages or disadvantages that new age drugs could have on professional surfing. I too can only make my assumptions on hearsay.
So I’ll agree to disagree

That's fine Hano, I wouldn't expect any better of a Manly supporter.

Drugs don't transform you into something you are not, they just help access parts that aren't always dominant. That's a pharmacological fact.

For you and me, sure, a red bull might be performance enhancing. Drugs for an elite athlete involved in a 'whole of being' pursuit like surfing - performance enhancing?

It's a mighty long bow. Although there are two perspectives, it ain't a 50/50 call.

[collnarra]

just a quick clarification for those that care. It's said AI was bipolar. None of the drugs in his system, according to the coroner's report, were drugs used to treat this condition.

[oldman]

Good point Collnarra.

And interesting, in that drugs to help with depression or bipolar would almost certainly be 'performance enhancing', in the same way that a cold medication is performance enhancing.

So much grey!

[Yuke Hunt]

Taking the bipolar out of the picture for a moment ... but not forgetting how frightening a large white bear with ambiguous sexual orientations would be ... who needs an elephant in the room when you've got one of those bad boys.

So now we have a dead surfer ... drugs are implicated in the death ... possibly being the primary or at the least a secondary cause of the cardiac arrest. The terms accidental overdose or death by misadventure come to mind. Its happened before and it'll happen again.

A lot of great musicians have left this mortal coil far to early due to accidental overdose or self medicated misadventure ... some simply drowned in their own vomit ... pulmonary aspiration to coin the medical term.
So if one was to aspire to go out on fire and die like a rock god ... I think drowning in someone else's vomit would be pretty hard core.

[TMC]

And interesting, in that drugs to help with depression or bipolar would almost certainly be 'performance enhancing', in the same way that a cold medication is performance enhancing.

I'd disagree with that. Mood stabilizers like lithium, valporate and lamotrigine all have side effects like drowsiness, bloating and head aches, hardly performance enhancing. Alternatively atypical antipsychotics like olanzapine and ariprozole result in similar side effects like weight gain, and drowsiness, but then also dizziness, and rapid heartrate fluctuations.

So to claim bipolar medication would enhance performance in something like surfing is a little dubious.

[TMC]

The public should also have a right to know that Penny Wong is gay, even though she isn't breaking any laws. It gives the public an indication on how she may vote on certain issues. I'm sure if one of her constituents was opposed to gay marriage, they would want to know the sexual orientation of their federal member.

I'm sure it wouldn't make a lick of difference.
Because they'd be voting for Tony or Bob anyway.

Probabaly not Bob Although I guess a vote for Penny sort of is a vote for Bob, but for conscience votes it would definitely inform their decision.

South Australian's are so unpredictable anyway...

[alakaboo]

Katter, not Brown

[TMC]

Ahh that makes more sense, though good luck voting for Bob Katter in SA. Irrespective I think it's socially irresponsible to vote someone who wears tan boots with a black suit into power. It sets a bad example.

[localbogan]

I have to say that I agree with Jimmy on this one. And as much as I hate to say it Steve Shearer wrote a pretty good post on here a little while ago which basically said that the only possible good thing that comes from his death is that lessons are learnt and it doesn't happen again.

Having said that, I think the ASP is a corrupt mates club and has failed in it's responsibility to AI and numerous other surfers.
It is after all the representative body of professional surfers yet appears to have no formal approach of dealing with substance abusing professional surfers.
The big problem I have is that Billabong put out a media release on the day of his death implying that dengue fever was to blame. Ultimately this was shown to not be a contributing factor at all and yet Billabong have refused to name the doctor who made this diagnosis or where, when and how it was made. The ASP has refused to name the doctors on duty at the Puerto Rico comp and Brodie Carr has not commented even though Fred Pawle has specifically enquired about this subject.

I will give you a comparison as to what would have happened in my industry, the medical profession, if an individual was found to have a substance abuse problem.
Their employer and their professional body (ie specialty college or medical board) would counsel them with the approach being to maintain confidentiality as much as possible and advise them that the ultimate aim is to get them back to the work place asap. They would have their registration suspended, then have medical intervention to get them through the early stages of withdrawal if necessary. They would then enter a counselling program and then when ready (usually about 3 months) be reintroduced back to work with restricted conditions and extra supervision plus something like weekly urine drug screens. A mentor would be appointed to oversee this and then gradually the restrictions would be eased and the frequency of the drug tests would decrease. If they failed, they would essentially go back to square one with greater subsequent supervision and testing.
This type of program is well established and is the most successful approach in treating substance abuse in the medical profession.
But what hope in hell would this have of succeeding in the surfing industry when in all likelihood a fair percentage of those involved in the employers (ie surf companies) and the professional body (the ASP) are likely to be partying just as hard as the surfers?
Who is going to dob them into the ASP, and who in the ASP is going to be the party pooper and take responsibility for maintaining their abstinence?
I reckon those involved in the ASP that are on the gravy train and travel around the world from contest to contest would be loath to sacrifice their own good times in order to baby sit someone else. Similarly, no journalist is going to potentially ostracise themselves by dobbing someone in.
Furthermore, I would hazard a guess that the majority of surfers abuse substances at every location on the tour so therefore it would create a ridiculous situation whereby the whole tour is in some sort of substance abuse program.
It seems like the ASP want the millions of dollars in prize money for the contests but do not want to compromise the inherent party nature of the circuit.
But unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.
If I was in a sport where athleticism played a big part in the success and yet there was absolutely no drug testing, I would be on every performance enhancing substance I could find.

The reason why the ASP don't have a testing program is because all of the internationally recognised programs include testing for things like cocaine, amphetamines, ecstasy, marijuana etc and the ASP know that this would decimate their tour.

[Beanpole]

Probabaly not Bob Although I guess a vote for Penny sort of is a vote for Bob, but for conscience votes it would definitely inform their decision.

Doesn't seem to inform Alan Jone's opinions much but then there is nothing worse than an a closet gay trying to be the most conservative voice in the crowd to gain acceptance. Although he's made an afluent life out of it.

[Skipper]

And interesting, in that drugs to help with depression or bipolar would almost certainly be 'performance enhancing', in the same way that a cold medication is performance enhancing.

I'd disagree with that. Mood stabilizers like lithium, valporate and lamotrigine all have side effects like drowsiness, bloating and head aches, hardly performance enhancing. Alternatively atypical antipsychotics like olanzapine and ariprozole result in similar side effects like weight gain, and drowsiness, but then also dizziness, and rapid heartrate fluctuations.

So to claim bipolar medication would enhance performance in something like surfing is a little dubious.

Well researched there Tom. Top of the class for you today.
And important to note that drugs for treating Bipolar and depression are generally contraindicative. Basically not recommended unless really specific circumstances in the patient call fir such a combination. No way, was Iron's in this realm. And I hazard a guesss that his - so called/alleged Bipolar was nothing more than severe Seratonin deficiancy, more often than not associated with prolonged and heavy psychoactIve drug use - cannabis combined with Cocaine/ Speed and MDMA -(ecstacy). Not at all uncommon and going on the current reported rate of ingestion of this combination amongst large numbers of yoof and not so yoof alike, we're likely to see an increase of mental health issues in the coming years. But I digress.
On the issue of performance enhancement, I don't think there's any doubt that a combo of coke/speed in themeselves only, would contribute substantially to an already highly accomplished individual's performance in any circumstance they were good at to start with. But only up to a point where the benefits would diminish proportionally to their sustained use.
Simply, a hot charging surfer has a lot to gain in the short term under the influence of this combination.

As far as this blame game being played out here goes, my feelings are that there is some truth out there regarding the right or wrong role his sponsor played over the years with regards to managing this high strung and wilful individual. But what's painfully obvious is that it may only be revealed in hindsight. And by then any acknowledgment of accountability will be diminished and the whole s'n's saga will be but a blight on an otherwise glorified passing of a popular sporting great.

[TMC]

Well researched there Tom. Top of the class for you today.
And important to note that drugs for treating Bipolar and depression are generally contraindicative. Basically not recommended unless really specific circumstances in the patient call fir such a combination. No way, was Iron's in this realm. And I hazard a guesss that his - so called/alleged Bipolar was nothing more than severe Seratonin deficiancy, more often than not associated with prolonged and heavy psychoactIve drug use - cannabis combined with Cocaine/ Speed and MDMA -(ecstacy).

More revision than research, but I'll take any compliment here. I don't think it would be seratonin deficiency because the bipolar was diagnosed as an adolescent. And the amount of gear he would have had to have consumed for the symptoms to rival that of bipolar would have to be pretty huge, even if he was using from 14/15.

Either way, the concept of self medicating with coke is ridiculous for so many reasons. I think that was just Billabong's way of trying to make it look like his drug habits were calculated and informed as opposed to an uncontrollable addiction.

[Grooter]

When I played local footy quite a few guys would do lines of speed right before a big game to enhance their performance.

And it worked. Very well.