Ask Carroll

[PeepeelaPew]

...

[Davros]

Re: surfing in a pool at the Olypmics, a lot of, if not all non surfing Australians would be proud if Australia did well. And I'm pretty sure the surfers would be so pumped to represent and win a medal. F@ck the ethos this time.

[rmb]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer Mr Carroll gave some moments ago http://www.surfinglife.com.au/news/sl-n ... -inclusion

I think that covers it cancel that question.

[Nick Carroll]

from my experience that pretty much sums them up Nick. draw your own conclusions as to the terminology one can apply to that type of person/attitude..not exactly endearing to the general populace or even their respective peers or wider cultural group.

well they're not like that forever.

there but for the grace of God etc

[foamy]

from my experience that pretty much sums them up Nick. draw your own conclusions as to the terminology one can apply to that type of person/attitude..not exactly endearing to the general populace or even their respective peers or wider cultural group.

On the other hand, we, the general populace, includes a lot of painful needy dickheads.

[steve shearer]

Firstly re Shearer saying all boards are planing hulls, with respect the spoon was far more a displacement hull and apart from the introduction of deep V bottoms the boards of the day were predominately more planning hulls than displacement.

We're probably quibbling on definition here but a surfboard by definition is a planing hull. That's what surfboards and kneeboard do on a wave; they plane.
Boards when they are padding have different characteristics and could be called semi-displacement hulls but one thing they all share in common is planing whilst riding a wave.

Greenoughs spoons had neutral buoyancy, if they didn't plane well they wouldn't be above water. He designed them specifically to plane and use power at high speeds.
It's why he stopped surfing them in the 70's; because they needed uncrowded high quality point surf to get up on the plane.

I wasn't there but I've spent enough time on Greenough's verandah to be pretty confident on that call.

[Hollowed out]

fair call Steve

[Davros]

Steve are you ever invited into the Tee Pee for cosmic design conditioning sessions, or are you only veranda worthy?

[pfj]

Yea, I sort of figured there were no short cuts. Sometimes when out in the water you seem to have those aha moments relating to body positioning, paddling technique or some other thing that make an immediate improvement in your ability to surf/catch waves.

I was thinking of taking a few months of unpaid vacation and travelling around Australia to surf but maybe Sumatra is a better option. Seems like it would certainly be cheaper.

[steve shearer]

Take a few months and find a wave rich and relatively uncrowded section of coast and surf your brains out.
Mid north coast NSW would be perfect.

[surfresearch]

Steve Shearer wrote:
We're probably quibbling on definition here but a surfboard by definition is a planing hull.

To paraphrase Lindsay Lord in Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls (1946):
“The surfboard's bottom operates at the boundary between two mediums, one of which is approximately 800 times as dense as the other ... the fundamental laws of standard naval architecture simply do not apply to a hull skimming the surface."

Geoff

[Drailed]

Yea, I sort of figured there were no short cuts. Sometimes when out in the water you seem to have those aha moments relating to body positioning, paddling technique or some other thing that make an immediate improvement in your ability to surf/catch waves.

I was thinking of taking a few months of unpaid vacation and travelling around Australia to surf but maybe Sumatra is a better option. Seems like it would certainly be cheaper.

surf often as possible in anything that isnt dangerous. Learn to take the shit with the good and make sure you are surfing a board which paddles well... Wave count is more important than performance...

Reading sets is something I dont think anything but time in the water can help you with, surfing with experienced guys and they catch the best waves which I dont even look at.

[steve shearer]

Steve Shearer wrote:
We're probably quibbling on definition here but a surfboard by definition is a planing hull.

To paraphrase Lindsay Lord in Naval Architecture of Planing Hulls (1946):
“The surfboard's bottom operates at the boundary between two mediums, one of which is approximately 800 times as dense as the other ... the fundamental laws of standard naval architecture simply do not apply to a hull skimming the surface."

Geoff

Not sure what you are trying to say here Geoff. Naval architecture laws may not apply, but there's still no doubt that what a surfboard hull is doing on a wave is planing. Thats why a tiny board that sinks ie a towboard can support a riders weight.

[foamy]

I won't let my ignorance stop me chipping in.
If you don't have a planing hull, the craft will dig in as it goes faster. Like a tug boat, or most row boats that are designed to slice through water rather than rise up on top. If you tow most row boats, you will see they tend to sit lower in the water as the speed increases. Surfboards, whether flat or with strong vees or concaves are designed to sit higher in the water (plane) as the speed increases. They have planing hulls.

[Davros]

pjf - just make sure you a) paddle hard b) point you board 30-45% on take off...don't take off straight EVER and youll be sweet.

[steve shearer]

exactly Foamy. At low speeds every surfboard is a displacement or semi-displacement hull with buoyancy (hydrostatic pressure) the primary lifting force, as speed increases when riding a wave hydrodynamic lift increases, proportional to speed and that becomes the main lifting force on the hull. The hull is then planing.
The power to weight ratio required to get a displacement surfboard hull up to planing speed is supplied by either rider effort (why fit, skilled surfers can ride low volume boards) or motor, eg tow-in.

Exemption: beyond planing there is hydro-foil which is a separate example of lift.

[Hollowed out]

Rather than get into a debate over definitions the basic principle involves floatation of varying degrees.

The more buoyant (thicker, longer, wider and light weight) the board, the higher it sit in or on the water and when in motion the quicker it will start planing across the surface and go faster.

The earlier point was about George's equipment changing the design of stand up boards of the day and into the future. That has a lot of merit but my point was that it was not directly related to the 'spoon' boards George rode because they had way less 'floatation' and did not plane like the boards of the day. The spoon sat low and the convex bottom had the capacity to push or displace water much more than a board riding higher on the water hence more difficult to get up and planing.

As every action has and equal and opposite reaction and there was certain trade off's that a stand up surfer would suffer in trying to ride 'spoon' type surfboards in an attempt to emulate George's type of surfing. George could ride deep in the tube partly because of the bottom shape of the spoon and his ability to control his speed to suit. He rode the pocket which still to this day is the greatest challenge for standup surfers to achieve although we have progressed way beyond what was happening back in the sixties.

George must be credited with showing how equipment needed to evolve if surfing was to progress. His mat riding compared to his spoon riding is the best evidence of the contrast of how two different forms of 'floatation' can influence planing

[Nick Carroll]

Yea, I sort of figured there were no short cuts. Sometimes when out in the water you seem to have those aha moments relating to body positioning, paddling technique or some other thing that make an immediate improvement in your ability to surf/catch waves.

I was thinking of taking a few months of unpaid vacation and travelling around Australia to surf but maybe Sumatra is a better option. Seems like it would certainly be cheaper.

Yeah look pfj, as you're discovering, surfing is extremely hard to master.

There's just so many different little skills involved.

What you will find over time is that as these skills accrete, occasionally you'll experience sudden leaps forward. These leaps will come along in unpredictable fashion but they will come along if you persist.

Between the leaps forward will be long periods where it'll feel like you've plateaued, or even fallen backward a bit. These plateau periods are what tend to stall people out on surfing. They stop surfing as much, stop progressing, cling on to the little bits and pieces they've learned, and may not make another leap forward for years -- or ever.

The only thing I've found to work for sure in advancing your surfing is a heap of water time -- a lot of surfing, lots of surfs within close proximity to each other, and ideally, a shit load of waves caught in the time involved. (That's one reason why surfing is way easier for people who started as young kids, when they have time to burn!) However you go about that, you will eventually feel true advancement -- little leaps forward as I've tried to describe.

Many people will try to give you tips etc. This is great and I urge you to listen to 'em all, but also, do not be afraid to throw any tip out the window if you find it doesn't work. Most surfers are self taught and their surfing is full of customised errors or restrictions which they've learned to mistake for functional skills. Their tips will frequently arise from these glitches in their own skills. But that said, every tip you get will be of some sorta use -- they all help you think about what you're doing.