Debate over shark killer rages

[bumfluff]

Sharkshield won't do much either. Sharks don't like electrical impulses, that much is true. If it was just curious, it might leave the area. But once a shark is on final approach it isn't going to turn away because of a tingling in it's shnozz.

The bloke you're talking about who got killed wasnt using the Shark Sheild equipment properly. And unless this footage is fake, the sharks definately respond negatively to the "tingling on the shnozz"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h2f_c2QUw

[bumfluff]

Is this the one you used Braithy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtAwlvgNpQ

[alakaboo]

The bloke you're talking about who got killed wasnt using the Shark Sheild equipment properly. And unless this footage is fake, the sharks definately respond negatively to the "tingling on the shnozz"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8h2f_c2QUw

Geez, that was conclusive.

That shark wasn't attacking.

It would appear, from further research, that the new model for divers has been endorsed by police and navy divers in South Oz. Presumably it does actually deter sharks in some way. So I have to accept that.

But I can't believe in any way it would stop a shark on full approach.
From the Sales Manager of Shark Shield
"Company policy is to recommend the use of SharkShield against sharks only in their investigative mode. "

Also, the guy in South Oz wasn't wearing it at all, it was still in the boat.
His dive buddy said in the coronial inquest that it was because they were uncomfortable and gave them electrical shocks.

And the surf model only works when stationary...

[crabmeat thompson]

Is this the one you used Braithy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtAwlvgNpQ

No. The one I used attached like a legrope and trailed out into the water the same way this one does. But the actual unit was attached to my leg by a big chunky legrope. After about 4-5 minutes of jumping off the boat, swimming around it started to loosen off my ankle and once that happened it shocked the crap out of me.

[bombora]

Navy divers must now use a shark shield when swimming in the harbour. Yak fishos who got nudged by a big GW off Long Reef now use em and claim they've had a few do a U-turn when they came into range.
When I used to gamefish it was interesting seeing the behaviours of various species as they sniffed up the berley trail. Had a full on "jaws" experience with a tiger off Sydney; Was on berley bucket duties, had seen no action and was starting to day dream while sitting on the transom pounding the pot, turned around and a big tiger's head was three foot out of the water about to crunch down on the berley pot. Did an olympic record breaking standing jump from transom to flybridge. Blue sharks would mostly sit back from the boat 20 or 30 metres away, tigers actually rarely saw as they usually swim mega deep on the shelf, big hammers were often "nervous" about the boat too, but makos had no fear. They'd regularly munch the berley pot or have a go at the props spinning in the current. Some kept all their fight for when they were gaffed (it's fun having a gaff handle break over your head as a green mako goes nuts) while others would go totally ape sh!t from the moment they felt the hook. Genuine five metre high leaps. My favourite shark.

[Kunji]

....

The problem lies with whoever is responsible for the beach protection measures. .

but if u had a killer dog in your neighoor


AND IT WAS eating your love ones ya be first complain coucil get it shot DEAD

Completely irrational. A dog is bred on land, for us. Your logic is flawed.

If you don't like sharks, don't surf. Simple. There are plenty of public pools to splash around in. We can't just wipe out every apex predator on the planet because of a few human deaths. That wouldn't make us a very nice animal at all.

http://www.stopsharkfinning.net/

[mical]

makos had no fear.

My favourite shark.

Agree, both in the ocean and to eat.

That wouldn't make us a very nice animal at all.

Unfortunately we never have been Coops, it's the kill or be killed, top of the foodchain mindset.

Anyone wanting to cull should watch this movie.

[Kunji]

makos had no fear.

My favourite shark.

Agree, both in the ocean and to eat.

That wouldn't make us a very nice animal at all.

Unfortunately we never have been Coops, it's the kill or be killed, top of the foodchain mindset.

Anyone wanting to cull should watch this movie.

Survival of the fittest doesnt mean that only 1 animal remains left on the planet.

[bumfluff]

Whats happening with the shark numbers Coops? Are they actually declining like everyone is saying or is that all BS... Im hearing different stories from just about everyone on this topic. Is there any sure way to know the numbers?

[mical]

^^
Preaching to the choir here Coops.

Braithy's the heartless bastard not me

[gra]

Gotta say the idea of a 'rogue' shark would be kinda funny if it wasn't for the circumstances that prompted this debate. The concept of a shark that somehow gets a taste for human flesh and turns mean (and thus must be dealt with) .... I could be wrong but it feels to me like like we're swapping instinct for motive and emotion.
For what it's worth I'll go on the record and say: if I ever get taken, I knew the risks, it's a fair cop, so leave 'em alone.
I don't profess to know bugger all about sharks, but if they are increasingly coming inshore (eek! like asylum seekers!) it's possibly because we've changed the dynamic of the food chain further out. So, yeah, if I'm the incredibly unlucky one, I'll have to take it for the team.

Good to see ya last tuesday Braithy by the way mate – the crew ya run into on the Angas path eh!

[bumfluff]

If the sharks were proven to be moving in shore and attacks started to rise sharply, obviously the government would have to do somthing about it. Otherwise the whole tourism industry of places like the gold coast are going to really hurt. Id say this is what the government weighs up when there is a shark attack and pretty much disregards the welfare of both the shark and the human. Its all about the dollars.

Having said that, I think the sharks will lose in the end because if attacks went up, its only a matter of time before locals everywhere would get the sh*ts with it. Not that I agree with it, but thats what I think will eventually happen. (the sharks are already losing because over 500 of them are euthenased every year from shark nets).

Imagine the impact it would have if Surfers Paradise became like Florida.

At the end of the day though, this recent attack is just one of very few. But its human nature for us to think that this is the start of a shark killing spree. Its not, until proven otherwise, and right now its just another extremely rare and unlucky accident.

[Kunji]

Whats happening with the shark numbers Coops? Are they actually declining like everyone is saying or is that all BS... Im hearing different stories from just about everyone on this topic. Is there any sure way to know the numbers?

There might be increased spike in numbers around small sections of coastline here and there, but the fact remains that 100 000 000 are killed each year for finning alone. Thats 11 000 a minute. No species can handle that slaughter. Its not like we are murdering them for our own survival, we're doing it for decadence. Which is absolutely disgusting. Thats no way to treat a 400 million year old species. Each to their own, but i know i can sleep at night with my morals and respect for our shared planet.

[chrisb]

For what it's worth I'll go on the record and say: if I ever get taken, I knew the risks, it's a fair cop, so leave 'em alone.

Did you hear his mother interviewed on TV the other night
She didn't allude to any sort of revenge/shark culling and was matter-of-fact rather than weepy/emotional. She said she warned her son many times about the dangers, especially considering that he also risked his life every day working in the mines. He acknowledged and accepted that risk and his mother said at least he died doing what he loved.
A violent death though - I'd rather die the Frank Latta way with a heart attack.

Hey Coops: Two consecutive shark avatars

[steve shearer]

Your right about the disgusting slaughter of pelagic shark species Coops.

But that is a completely different kettle of fish (so to speak) when considering the question of GWS numbers around the Oz coastline.
Or bullsharks or tigers for that matter.
Most of these species are not the ones being caught by long-liners on the high seas.

We still have not adequately answered the question of are GWS numbers increasing in the near-shore zone.
Anecdotal evidence from this part of the world suggests they are, in response to increasing numbers of Humpback whales.
The GW's seem to follow the migrating humpbacks picking off the sick or injured calves.

[alakaboo]

Fluffy, it's not easy to estimate shark numbers.
There are a number of potential sources of data:
Fishing catch reports (may reflect effort rather than numbers, and rec fishers aren't normally included)
Trawler bycatch (tends to only catch small sharks, as big ones get out of the way)
Longline bycatch (not typically publicly available)
Catch records from netting and drumline programs. (recent declines may reflect changes in practices, e.g. use of sharks as bait instead of mullet)

As far as I understand it (and I've been out of this field for a bit), records either show stable or declining catch rates.

Some sources:
QLD
http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/extra/pdf/fi ... report.pdf
NSW, which has the best data
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... rogram.pdf

The NSW document is by far the most comprehensive I'm aware of for Australia.
It states
"Excluding the period of the early 1970s when the netting protocols were modified, there has been a generally consistent decline in the total numbers of sharks and CPUE in the SMP from 1950 to 2008 (Table 12; Figure 10).

[alakaboo]

Summarising the report, and answering some of the posts while I was reading it...

Steve, and Fluffy:
It appears that Great White numbers inshore have increased slightly in NSW over the last 5 years, if you use catches in the Shark Meshing Programs as a proxy.
Conversely, it seems that Qld catches are stable or decreasing.

Fluffy, attacks have already increased, both here and overseas.
The Australian and International Shark Attack Files show this.

But, they haven't increased at nearly the rate of coastal population expansion.

[bombora]

SOme environmental groups do themselves a disservice when they try to use northern hemi problems as ammo for their campaigns here.
Case in point: short finned makos. They are in pretty crook shape in the Atlantic and Med etc, so these groups used that issue to demand a ban on all fishing for em in Oz waters.
Problem is northern hemi and southern hemisphere makos are, from what I've been told from a pelagic fish specialist scientist, totally different populations, with no interaction.
So banning all fishing for them here does zilch to help the poor ol' makos north of the equator. Was told our east coast mako numbers are pretty good. You certainly see enough of em.
Little makos are yummy but personally have stopped eating them cause they are, like pretty well all sharks, slow growing, take quite a while to become sexually mature and produce small numbers of babies.