Would this, could this happen?

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otway1949
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Would this, could this happen?

Post by otway1949 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:17 pm

There is a proposal being aired due to stinking behaviour by SUPs and newly "graduated" surf school students and tourists hitting high quality breaks and being basically just shrapnel in the water.

The proposal is to grade all surf spots up in levels to a double black diamond spot ( just like in skiing).
However in the surf, surfers will be graded and have to wear a colour patch designating their competence for the break, so too will the purchase of registration stickers come back, and some locations will be matched to certain surf craft i.e. SUP only spots, mal spots and mixed and then short board spots and boogie board spots.

It probably will begin at the Super bank and crowded locations like the Pass at Byron and Lennox Head, Crescent Head will be a Mal only spot and if successful others will follow.

If it works and councils get enough from the rego fees and fines then it will only be a matter of time before the idea crosses the ditch!
Councils have been looking for a long time for a way to control surfers and gain money from them, this is the start of something horrible and the policing of something once beautiful will begin :shock:
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by Beerfan » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:09 am

Doubt it. Legal minefield. Possibly at super crowded city breaks, but even then, nah i dont think so. Fuggen hope not anyway, what a fukt idea.
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by munch » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:39 am

Go the BEARS!
Last edited by munch on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by Trev » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:04 am

munch wrote:sounds like a great idea as long as merimbula and prm are short boarders only

pffft - lennox a mal only, you lost me there

a better idea would be to apply this boards over a certain size, given they are the issue
I think otway meant a full stop after Lennox so that he was saying only Crescent was a mal only spot. (There you go otway - an "out" for you old buddy.) 8)
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by Karlos » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:34 am

Who exactly is proposing this anyway?

Twenty years ago I was living in New Jersey in the USA & the beaches had a registration process during the summer whereby you had to purchase a tag to even be able to step onto the sand. You could only swim in front of lifeguard towers & surf in front of a very few designated lifeguard towers between the hours of 9 & 5 or 10 & 4 or something (can't quite remember). It was an absolutely ridiculous situation. Fortunately the surf was generally so shitty it wasn't like you were watching beautiful peaks going unridden, but it still was a joke.

Hey I hate SUPs, goat boats & other clueless riders as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't want the authorities stamping any sort of regulations on who can surf a particular place & who can't. Leave it up to the crew who are out there to take care of the lineup.

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by oldman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:47 am

The bureaucracy involved would be just mad.

And it would have to cost the surfers a bit to register, or whatever, because the admin would be significant.

Policing it would be impossible as well.

If they made crescent a mal only wave I'd be tempted to go up there on the shortboard just as an act of civil disobedience.

You may be right otway, in that councils and others may well be looking to make money from the surf crew, but it's just too hard. Nothing to stop them from registering ocean swimmers after that, and then putting fences up along the beaches. Randwick tried to put parking metres at Coogee and Maroubra beaches and met too much resistance to that idea.
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by dUg » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:52 am

Hang on... it's not april 1?

**puts on glasses and re-checks calender**

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by otway1949 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:14 am

dUg wrote:Hang on... it's not april 1?

**puts on glasses and re-checks calender**
No it's not April 1.
There is reasoning in my raising this issue like this as there are some pertinent points that need to be considered.
The registration of boards has been done before in the early sixties, FAILed.

I know however that some litigation specialists are looking at the accidents that happen in the surf and where compensation can be had and then they go for the deepest pockets.... councils etc.

I don't believe in doom and gloom but we as a sport, lifestyle, however you see it, we need to be self responsible.
Every RSer can imagine the crappage that would go with any form of regulation by any government body.
A bit like a Tony Abbot surf lesson!

Legal stuff; who decides the competency of the surf for each spot, who grades the spots are they liable for an error of judgement in either of the previous cases?
What happens when Oldman exercises his civic right of disobedience?

All too hard unless there is a shitload of money to be made! but unthinkable NO :!:
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by still here » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:17 am

It's a great idea and should be launched in NSW - World Capital of Bureaucracy Gone Mad and Over-Regulation . The Surfing Crimes Act - love it . (Although a committee should be formed first - to do a cost/benefit analysis ) .

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by FishStick » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:45 pm

What if you are a tourist and just visiting Snapper? Or if you have a big quiver? Do you have to get rego for each board? How do you get graded, do you go out with an examinor and hope it's not that day you surf like a kook?

Next thing we'll have council stickers and you can only surf in your council area. Maybe not such a bad idea as it will keep the Westies at home. :-D

Maybe there will be parking ticket style permits, where you can only surf for two hours. "Come in number 25 your time is up" and you can only paddle out after someone has paddled in as the break has exceeded it's limit. Then there'll be "That's your second drop in, red card! You're out!" :P
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:52 pm

When the kid Pascal was almost killed up at Byron in January, it was followed by a lot of talk about possible surf spot regulation.

If the next crowd-caused accident results in a death, and legal action against a council or Government results, you can bet the law will be paddling out along with everyone else.

That's what's happening with the superclubbies following the death of Saxon Bird at the national titles ... they're reviewing the whole carnival process and it'll be amazing if helmets and/or lifejackets etc don't get a serious run up the flagpole.

Surfing's inability to control the results of its own popularity may end in tears at some point, so be ready.

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by alakaboo » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:19 pm

I doubt that there's much threat of legal policing of unregulated activities in surf zones
the surf zone is (normally) crown land, 'leased' to council and managed by them.
to my understanding it'd take a legal decision at least at state level, and no govt. is going to fall on that sword.
most court cases recently have cleared councils of liability, unless there is a fibreglass board in the flags, and even then it's normally the lifesaver left holding the ball.

carnivals are another thing, can't comment on that except to say most participant forms include a waiver for liability. doesn't mean safety gear can't be mandated for participation, and i'd suggest it's a good idea.

and if anyone is interested, the proposed amendments to the NSW Coastal Protection Act might be worth checking out, there's a whole raft of potential liability timebombs in that one!

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by ajohnsen » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:31 pm

There's talk of introducing a David Jones Food Hall approach.

Surfers take a number at the shoreline and queue to be the next to paddle out. Then, for example, Kobi Abberton (at North Maroubra) or Nick Carroll (at the Peak) will sit just beyond the impact zone and, with a megaphone, call the next number. They'll collect the ticket and open a small floating gate to let the next surfer through. There is a maximum of three surfers per take-off zone. As the system becomes more sophisticated you'll be able to buy Kalamata olives and Parma ham.

To avoid a local-driven backlash, there'll be a separate queue, as in airports, for those with accreditation. Just flash your membership to the Seals, Avalon RSL etc., or badge-draw card for the Newport Arms, Time & Tide, Sands etc. Non-locals can be assured that this system will be managed with transparency and integrity.

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by oldman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:21 pm

alakaboo wrote:I doubt that there's much threat of legal policing of unregulated activities in surf zones
the surf zone is (normally) crown land, 'leased' to council and managed by them.
It's a good point alakaboo. The jurisdiction issues are really complex.

Generally speaking, pretty much all jurisdiction stops at the high water mark. Federal government has some jurisdiction beyond the high water mark, it is really only to cover maritime conventions/treaties and for resource use/management. It's probably problematic that anyone has jurisdiction to make laws for surfers beyond the high water mark.

Certainly the lifesavers are relying much more on bluff to tell you where to swim, or not surf, and to confiscate your board.
ajohnsen wrote:There's talk of introducing a David Jones Food Hall approach.
Works for me! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by alakaboo » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:05 pm

oldman wrote: The jurisdiction issues are really complex.
Generally speaking, pretty much all jurisdiction stops at the high water mark. Federal government has some jurisdiction beyond the high water mark, it is really only to cover maritime conventions/treaties and for resource use/management. It's probably problematic that anyone has jurisdiction to make laws for surfers beyond the high water mark.
i'm assuming this isn't news to you Oldman, but State control normally extends out to 3nm, then it's federal.
most residential jurisdiction stops at the high tide line, the extent of others depends on the lessee in some cases.
there are actually some properties in NSW which extend out into the ocean, as they are fixed boundaries and the shoreline has moved. Probably the case elsewhere too. So if you're going to get injured, make sure you do it within those boundaries!

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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by Animal_Chin » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:03 pm

You talking out your arse Otway?

Anything to substantiate this 'proposal'?
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otway1949
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by otway1949 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:38 pm

Animal_Chin wrote:You talking out your arse Otway?

Anything to substantiate this 'proposal'?
No, there is nothing to substantiate this proposal.
It is in the I have heard category.
Why I am running it up the flagpole, is to show what might happen if surfers do not figure out how to preserve their free lifestyle.
There are genuinely AVOs against people from surfing at the same time as other people and a number of enforcers have be banned as part of their good behaviour bonds to stay away from certain groups of beaches.
The law is already intruding!
As it stands now some surf spots inside harbours and protected waters could be closed by the stroke of a pen.
I am not an alarmist but a hypothetical exposure of a potential problem using a forum in its true sense is a beginning to resolve it.
I certainly do not want bureaucratic control of surfing ( the French tried to mandate lifejackets, some American beaches have black ball times when surfing is banned) and various jurisdictions look across the water at what is happening elsewhere and copy ideas.
No not talking out of my arse, just thinking out aloud :?
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Re: Would this, could this happen?

Post by steve shearer » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:28 am

Whilst working on a separate project I have been in the Gold Coast City Council chambers and heard beauracrats(sp) and elected representatives raise these very issues.
They had absolutely no moral or philosphical objection to some kind of policing/regulation in the surf zone (specifically, the Superbank).

The model proposed was paid "rangers" , on jetskis who would act as deterrents for anti-social behaviour and issue "warnings".
Sounds great.
Unfortunately I was forced to switch off the camera for this meeting so don't have it on tape.

To my mind this is one of the more insidious unintended consequences of full scale pro surfing contests.
To wit:They introduce the idea and the reality of policed surf zones.

My gut feeling is that even if this becomes reality on the Goldy it won't spread.
I think looking at California is more instructive : a generalised low level of sporadic violence and increasing numbers of common law assualt cases and AVO's handed out.
An issue as Dino pointed out is the differing social expectations and norms of say ; the local dirtbag enforcer and the MacBank hodad on the SUP who just copped a whack in the gob for dropping in. In that case you would say the force of the law wouldn't look kindly on Reggie Dirtbag.
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