the young clubbie killed at the aust titles on the goldy

[crabmeat thompson]

tbh, I can't see how the family can litigate.

The ocean is a dynamic, dangerous place. You either had to abandon all carnivals of this nature, or run them with each participant firm in the knowledge that they're risking their life to take part.

I surfed Miami the morning before, and we're talking 3-4 foot of swell max. On the high tide when this happened it was closer to 2-foot. If you can't hold a carnival in 2-foot due to the danger, when can you?

[Nick Carroll]

Poor little guy. By the sounds of it it might've been an accidental collision, not due to conditions (looked pretty tame in the footage I saw). I'd be interested to hear Nick's man-on-the-ground opinion.

It was about four foot, occasional slightly bigger set, moderate se breeze, lowish tide (low was around 5pm). Tricky conditions, not impossible.

I did the masters on Monday and Tuesday and warmed up the u17 squad yesterday morning before flying back to Sydney yesterday, so was not on site when it happened.

Though a couple of my u15 squad members were in the same race - a heat of the board. One was right next to the kid as they reached the sandbar, the other was already coming back from the cans. The one next to the kid punched through the wave as it approached, the kid rolled it at the base, then he just vanished. Kurrawa's outer sandbar is about 100m offshore across a wide gutter and the sand is like concrete; the water goes v quickly from maybe 3m deep to very shallow at low tide. I don't have a clue what really happened but can guess from the situation. Everyone up there is extremely distressed, specially the kids who were in the race.

[steve shearer]

Whose this rolled gold douchebag Chris Branson trying to turn it into a political point-scoring game by suggesting that it's a disgrace for the event to be at Kurrawa and Tony Abott would have a Royal Commission.

Is this cnut for real?

It's a terrible blow for his family but suggesting in any way that a 3-4ft 8-9 second period tradewind swell is overly dangerous is just ludicrous.

It's just a damm shame that if he got knocked out by his board no-one could get to him to save him.

[Nick Carroll]

yeah pretty fcuken inappropriate.

I'm sure there's many angry thoughts being thought by people about this but airing 'em out deliberately to the press right now doesn't do anyone much good.

[Beanpole]

One of my son's mates was in the same race apparently. Thought it might have been him at first. The guy on the radio was saying there were two sand banks with a gutter in between each one. Typical set up for the area.

I remember a bunch of us nearly drowned in a carnival at Ballina back in the seventies when we were about the same age as these guys.

[crabmeat thompson]

I see there is an article by a female journo in the telegraph (today) declaring Kurrawa one of the world's most dangerous beaches and all beach activities should be banned there.

Guy Leech blames the absence of a headland as to why it is the "death stretch" of beach.

For two sets of people who spend all their time in the ocean, surfers and lifesavers, they could not be more polar opposite.

[steve shearer]

Well by extension Sufferers Parasite just up the road must also have all beach activities banned.

Jeez, this is a fine old load of cock and bull.

Glad this generation isn't being asked to fight in the jungles of Borneo.

This whole media circus is particularly nauseating, even on the ABC.
Car-loads of families getting maimed in the nations highways and not a word and some kid accidentally drowns and the sky is caving in and every cockroach and carpet-bagger is crawling out of the woodwork trying to get mileage out of it.

[crabmeat thompson]

Deadset, all this carpet bagging, and having elders like Leech come out of their hole to lay the boot in ... I feel sorry for the clubbies.

It was always going to take a ludicrous situation to develop for that, to ever be a possible outcome.

[Nick Carroll]

I got calls from a couple of journos from the Murdoch press yesterday. They did everything they could to try to get a quote out of me that they could turn to inflammatory advantage. Asked the same basic question in about 15 different ways.

They weren't interested in what happened, they just wanted to get a headline out of it.

They then did the same thing to a couple of other coaches who're up at the carnival. We compared notes afterward.

What a bunch of fcukwits.

[kookster]

What did asking Saxon Bird's family for comment achieve? It's a tragedy for both Saxon and Matt, but asking the still bereaved Bird parents to be judge and jury on this latest case does none of the parties any good.

[Trev]

Whilst I must admit I've never liked the stretch of beach from Nobby's to Narrowneck, that's a personal choice but I do wonder what it is that keeps them coming back there.
Nick might be able to help here but sometimes the odds just go against you. Three deaths in a little over 15 years makes it sound like life saving comps are dangerous but, has there been any before that?
If not then three in 100 years or so is fairly low numbers.
One is too many but whatever sport we choose to play, the danger of death or injury is always going to be there.

Also Nick, the talk about inflatable vests. Wouldn't they make it difficult to dive under waves and out of control skis/boards? Or do they only inflate in the event of an accident and if so, how?

[moreorless]

the talk about inflatable vests. Wouldn't they make it difficult to dive under waves and out of control skis/boards? Or do they only inflate in the event of an accident and if so, how?

Heard a radio interview with some official from SLSA this morning. He pointed out the problems with flotation vests (hard to dive under incoming obstacles) but also said the association had been investigating the issue for about three years (or since around the time of the 2010 fatality). Three years sounds like a long time to not come up with a solution. It sounds like there may have been some inertia or even complacency. The official also pointed out that competitors could use Gath helments to guard against injury, but it wasn't compulsory. Why not? At least for the juniours anyway? There seem to be a lot of questions about the SLSA's handling of the issues that need to be asked and answered. Journalists have the right and even duty to do the asking. That's no excuse for intrusive interviews with grieving relations, or for grandstanding by wannabes. But the questions need to be asked. Three deaths at the same beach during a competition of so-called life savers. Something's definitely very wrong. Why they're even competing on dysfucntional equipment (skis, paddle boards, surf boats) that aren't used in real-life rescue situations mystifies me. Maybe it's time to move on from the nostalgia of the old days.

[Trev]

Something's definitely very wrong. Why they're even competing on dysfucntional equipment (skis, paddle boards, surf boats) that aren't used in real-life rescue situations mystifies me. Maybe it's time to move on from the nostalgia of the old days.

I understand what you're saying but IMHO, if you used that analogy we'd have no justification for football or cricket or a whole host of other sports which don't have any real life associations.
It's about fitness, skill and learning how best to read the surf. These are best learnt on craft which bring you closest to the action (again IMHO).

[kookster]

moreorless I've never thought of it that way.

Imagine the number of injuries/deaths we'd have in surfing with the number of people in the water these days if everyone was still on 10' wooden boards.

trev but in league kids need to be certain age now before they tackle and have scrums etc etc, and in cricket we have helmets and all sorts of protective equipment.

Not a simple solution to any of it that's for sure. I would like to assume, though, that those in charge at SLSA are not the evil monsters many are making out. They do this every weekend for the sport and for life saving awareness and whole host of other good reasons.

The media and many others seem to think they know better though.

[Nick Carroll]

Whilst I must admit I've never liked the stretch of beach from Nobby's to Narrowneck, that's a personal choice but I do wonder what it is that keeps them coming back there.
Nick might be able to help here but sometimes the odds just go against you. Three deaths in a little over 15 years makes it sound like life saving comps are dangerous but, has there been any before that?
If not then three in 100 years or so is fairly low numbers.
One is too many but whatever sport we choose to play, the danger of death or injury is always going to be there.

Also Nick, the talk about inflatable vests. Wouldn't they make it difficult to dive under waves and out of control skis/boards? Or do they only inflate in the event of an accident and if so, how?

OK.

One big reason why they keep going there is that Kurrawa is considered by most of the surf racing fraternity to be an awesome challenge. Its structure, with a small but tricky shorie zone, a wide deep gutter, and a variable two stage outside closeout sandbar line, really tests your skills, timing and fitness to the max; most races at Kurrawa stretch out a fair bit longer than races at other beaches. The fact that it picks up more swell than anywhere else on the Goldie just adds to the challenge. It's not quite the Pipeline of Clubbiedom but it's not far off, in that mythmaking sense. Winning one of those races is always a kick but winning at Kurrawa is special.

In terms of numbers, well, there's probably around 100 large surf carnivals in Australia each summer, by "large" I mean a few hundred or more total competitors in the water. At the Aussies this year there were around 7400 competitors entered, most of which are in water events. People are often injured at surf carnivals. At this one, on Tuesday, a veteran Master doing a warmup on a board blew it on the outer sandbar, drove his knee into the sand, and broke his hip so badly it pushed the knee six inches further up the leg line - a terrible injury. I also saw a couple of Achilles injuries, pretty common among the older racers whose bodies are stiffer than they care to admit. But deaths are not common given the numbers competing; they've been down to the unpredictability of the ocean; I think the point is they are preventable.

(I actually suspect that numbers are a major issue here. There's too many competitors in single races for the safety people to keep accurate track of. But they put lots of people in races because there's lots of people at the carnival. It's open, anyone can enter. If Aussies had a qualification system, where you had to be top 20 in your state to qualify for a race at national level, it might help cut the numbers to a more manageable level. But again, that is a major challenge to the SLS culture – it's run on an amateur level in a professional world.)

Re inflatable vests, I've seen a couple of different flotation vest ideas that have been in development for presentation to the SLSA, they're not inflatable, rather they use slide-in foam flotation cells that can be altered to fit the type of event or craft being used. The ones I've seen are frankly pretty cheap and shitty and I think would be rejected by a lot of elite competitors, but good ones are easy to imagine. The only race where they'd be a real issue would be ironman, where the race changes from craft to swim at pace, if you had to put on a floaty vest it'd be a bit of a wildcard slow-down, and you wouldn't want to wear one of those vests while swim racing, it'd get in the way and might even be dangerous (ever tried to bodysurf in a PFD?)

I completely disagree with moreorless when he says racing boards and skis are out of date, have you used 'em or developed skills on 'em? You probably wouldn't say that if you had. And what about Hawaiians using outriggers in ocean races etc, are they out of date and should be scrapped? Or don't you have an opinion on that?

Surf racing is a legit and super challenging sport, it's facing a tragedy on the back of a tragedy and questions need to be asked of everyone involved, but to some worthwhile end, not to satisfy the prurience of someone reading the Daily Telegraph on a bus going to work.

[dUg]

All competitors in events that involve craft must wear helmets. Actually... make them wear helmets for the March Past too. Flourescent pink. God knows it couldn't look more ridiculous...

... from 2 years ago almost to the day

:?

[tiger]

I agree the craft are the danger here. Sure Nick they may be motor on 'em when beyond the break. But going out, or in thru the break for that matter, when there's any form of size and suckiness, they're an absolute pig.

Add to this the race format where people are being clumped together, and there's bound to be collisions at some point. And as seen with the poor unfortunate the other day, your own board is even a danger to yourself.

I agree with dUg, helmet and vest for the craft legs/races. Would hardly be difficult to remove/put on in the transitions. Bird and this other kid would likely be alive today.

Was there any rips in the competition zone Nick? Maybe spread the field more with lanes. Say over a length of 100m, where there is no advantage of rips etc.

[Nick Carroll]

I agree the craft are the danger here. Sure Nick they may be motor on 'em when beyond the break. But going out, or in thru the break for that matter, when there's any form of size and suckiness, they're an absolute pig.

Mate I use them a lot, I've developed skills on them, with the exception of skis in really heavy chaotic surf I don't think they're any more of a danger than a surfboard when in the use and care of someone with the skills.

And yeah, ever tried to roll a racing board under a 4' wave wearing a protective helmet? There are excellent reasons why this might not be such a cracking idea.

To me if there's a specific danger other than the ocean itself, it's in the competition setting and the pressure involved. Kids train in conditions like yesterday all summer long and nobody dies. But in training you can hold back from a difficult situation. In a race you'll do things you'd never do in training.

Was there any rips in the competition zone Nick? Maybe spread the field more with lanes. Say over a length of 100m, where there is no advantage of rips etc.

There were seaward rips forming and reforming to release water back out through the outer sandbar. Some race areas had the starting line set on one of those rips, which made it way quicker and easier getting out. Others didn't. The 15s zone was relatively benign.

They don't race in lanes. The way these races are set up, everyone starts side by side. Once in the water they can draw any line they choose. They all go around the same course and so naturally they come together at various points in the race. They also tend to "draft" or slot in behind each other to take the heat off paddling, though coaches (good ones anyway) discourage this while racing inside the break.

The maximum number allowed in any one craft race is 16. I've seen this number pushed at numerous carnivals (they were v tight on it at Aussies this year btw, though my iron final had 18). But -- again -- to me that feels like the issue. 16 competitors in a surf zone might just be too many to keep track of in the dramatic moments while you're penetrating the break, it all happens very quickly and you're out of reach of any power craft. I hope they consider cutting the race numbers down.