ORDERED OUT OF THE SURF

[SPAKKFILLA]

I was surfing down the Bra last Saturday, nice little 2-3 ft right bank, right on the edge of the flags. The clubbies were closely monitoring the tight pack. Occasionally surfers drifted into the flagged area, the clubbies were barking out predictable orders to stay clear of that area even though most surfers were at least a 100 metres out and nobody appeared to be swimming at the time. One guy paddled out, seemingly oblivious to an ever more agitated clubbie screaming at him from the beach to paddle left an away from the patrolled area. He seemed unaware of what he was doing but certainly wasnt endangering anybodys safety. A clubbie then paddled out and ordered him back to the beach. This is the first time I have ever seen this and Ive been surfing for about 20+ years. The guy paddled in and the clubbie proceeded to lecture him and refused him (verbally) permission to re enter the water. Can they do this? Does anyboby know the law that supports this action? Did anybody else see this? And what if the guy refused and just paddled back out into the surf? What happens then? Was all very entertaining but a tad heavy handed.

[dUg]

Dunno about NSW / QLD, in SA the only people with *legal* authority to make you leave the water are a sanctioned local council officer or SAPOL.

That being said, other authorities and groups here have achieved the same result through threats and / or intimidation.

[munch]

Past the high tide water mark is federal territory - so councils, therefore have no jurisdiction

[chrisb]

other authorities and groups here have achieved the same result through threats and / or intimidation.

Past the high tide water mark is federal territory - so councils, therefore have no jurisdiction

I think both the above comments are correct: it's all bluster and bluff on the clubbies' behalf. They are only volunteers after all.

If you engangered (or more so injured) others by your actions, and it could be proven, the clubbies may have justification in detaining you. Not unlike a citizen's arrest.

Having said that, when I was a naive schoolkid with too much respect for authority a beach inspector confiscated my board for 2 weeks for riding in a storm swell in a flagged area that had nobody in it at any time - I should have done a runner.

[2nd Reef]

Past the high tide water mark is federal territory - so councils, therefore have no jurisdiction

How then do councils get sued (like Waverly recently did) when punters injure themselves in the surf?

I'm not clear on this, but I'm sure councils, and therefore clubbies, have a duty of care for all people who use their beaches. I'm pretty sure that includes the surf zone.

[lambert]

this happened to me last year when i was trying to surf at deadmans just north of mooloolaba on new years day i think, the drove up on their little buggies just as we were about to rock off, we saw them coming so we jumped in and then they drove back, got skis and drove down and gave us some serious lecturing, they didnt do anything in the end- i geuss they were bored, and left mooloolaba beach unprotected :?

[SPAKKFILLA]

Okay just to clarify..the guys who did the ordering out of the surf were lifeguards (the Bondi Rescue variety) not SLSC lifesavers. This would make them paid council employees, but does that still give them the right to order somebody from the surf as a kind of punishment for disregarding the beach rules. And are those "rules" written into law?

[munch]

Past the high tide water mark is federal territory - so councils, therefore have no jurisdiction

How then do councils get sued (like Waverly recently did) when punters injure themselves in the surf?

Not sure what incident you are referring to, maybe the guy in Coogee swimming pool :? which is above the high tide mark.

If it's another, I'd guess it's assumed duty of care ( there's a "guess" and "assumed" in that sentence btw if you trying to get facts out'a it) .

[2nd Reef]

Nah, not Coogee pool Munch. And it wasn't that recent either - 2002 (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/ ... 77255.html)

Some good info in this document (http://eprints.qut.edu.au/9114/1/9114.pdf).

The law isn't clearly defined but councils and land-based authorities can be liable for things that happen beyond the high-tide mark (even if the plaintiffs have been necking pingers and are pissed to the gills).

[Nick Carroll]

Okay just to clarify..the guys who did the ordering out of the surf were lifeguards (the Bondi Rescue variety) not SLSC lifesavers. This would make them paid council employees, but does that still give them the right to order somebody from the surf as a kind of punishment for disregarding the beach rules. And are those "rules" written into law?

Council bylaws would allow the lifeguards to prohibit people from entering the water, and if they did so anyway, they could be summonsed and perhaps fined somewhere down the track.

I wonder if the non compos guy gave 'em some shit and they responded to that.

Lesson, don't irritate the lifeguards, most of 'em are surfers and they cut fellow surfers a bit of slack, but their job is not a piece of cake and they don't appreciate people doing dumb shit.

[mustkillmulloway]

do lifeguards or other council workers ( oxymoron ) like rangers have the right stop surfers and swimmers if they think there at risk from a

killer shark

[oldman]

I wonder if the non compos guy gave 'em some shit and they responded to that.

Lesson, don't irritate the lifeguards, most of 'em are surfers and they cut fellow surfers a bit of slack..,

Yeah, possibly the first Nick, although the guys at the 'bra are a varied lot (surfers and lifesavers). I have never had trouble with the council guys, and have met and talked to a few and generally they are great. The volunteers are a real mixed bag, although I have never had trouble with them either.

I have seen similar scenes at Maroubra, sometimes under much less provocation. If he stayed in the flagged area then he is a fool, and as a surfer you should know where you are on the beach.

Having said that, the flags are put up through the winter as well (rotating Maroubra, Bronte, Tama and maybe Bondi) and quite often have no swimmers in the area, but usually the lifesavers will still police the area as though it was sacred ground, even with waves breaking far beyond the shore. Yet up the coast at a certain spot I attend, the surfers are allowed to surf in the flagged area if it is breaking well beyond the shore. It's a mixed bag.

I doubt they have much legal authority for what they sometimes do, as others have
mentioned. Best to stay out of trouble I think.

[Trev]

It's interesting watching some of the lifeguards/ clubbies at work They have a thankless task IMHO.
I don't envy them. They are dealing almost constantly with stupid, ocean illiterates, often from overseas with no grasp of English, or from city suburbs, down for their one day a year in the surf.
Then there's the smartarse aggro youg bloods who don't want to be shown up in front of their mates &/or girlfriends.
And if they over-react, it can often be explained away by the fact that they've just come away from a confrontation with some absolute nutter. You can't expect them to just instantly switch back to "Mr Nice Guy". They are only human, too.

[Yuke Hunt]

Well after reading this thread ... I suppose one could make the statement that ...
CLUBBIES ARE ALRIGHT ... FOR DICKHEADS ... don't get me started.
voluntary organizations ... such as ...
volunteer marine rescue ...
surf lifesaving ...
volunteer fire fighters ...
dealt with them all at various stages of a varied career path ... and although the
core members of these groups are fantastic and community minded ... it’s the
cowboys in their membership that f**k them over big time.
Unfortunately these establishments seem to have ...
extremely large dick head magnets attached.

[lambert]

i heard that disobeying lifeguards in QLD can be reported to the police and you will be fined, not sure on what grounds- definitely needs to be confirmed.

[Buff_Brad]

A smile and a wave virtually is all it took. I could see his issue and can accept it. Amazing what a few years can do for ya. Im glad he didn't come across me in my twenties.

Why , what would you have done pal ?......... sucked him off behind the club-house? Or just a mutual wank down at Sth Whaley on the rocks in front of the Ovens?

[mustkillmulloway]

hey nick nack did you get a big shiny badge with the stupid stripped cap

[Beanpole]

Ah, clubbies. Guess its getting tougher for them with the paid lifeguards pulling rank all the time. Making them look like a bunch of non professionals. And with the demise of the true local clubbie to be replaced by well intentioned novices from parts inland or OS. At least the megaphone mouthed aging alpha males who run the show can have someone to yell orders at.

I love watching the girls reel work and parade drills at Bondi. All instructed by an old clubbie with the full keg gut. "Now point your toes, back straight," its like dance school. You expect to see him break out the fox trot or give them a lesson from swan lake.

All very useful in case of emergency.