poll - medicine

[yanks r us]

Ok i was waiting for someelse to maybe start a topic abouyt this but here i go

Im suprised (well not really) and disappointed to see how many people actually use natural (i assume alternative) "medicine". Especially Poeople who chose natural care first do they realise that maybe time is the real healer, do they think oh hey, its starting to get better now after a week or so of homeopathy (or any other notion) - it mustwork!

Still cant believe how gullible and stupid people in the 21st century are.

Any thoughts or personal anecdotes

[Karlos]

Any thoughts

Just that you're an idiot.

[yanks r us]

come on carly, no need for childish behaviour

[wanto]

nah yanker, he's right.

[porca]

Sorry guys Im with Yanks, if there is no scientific data to prove it then I aint paying for it. However, I get massages which make me "feel" better and I have had accupuncture through my physio but Im not sure how effective it is.
I find it hard to part with money without "proof". And someone saying it works isnt proof.

[yanks r us]

Thats true

Unfortunately they like to trap and take advantage of people in desperation, taking advantage and offering false hope by tempting them with a cure or subsiding their ailment. Whether they do it intentionally or not doesnt matter, ashame its a lot to do with money. they turn over millions sometimes billions of money each year.

practices which cannot be tested, refuse to be tested (i wonder why), or consistently fail tests are classified as alternative. If properly controlled double-blind trials prove that it has a curative effect it wouldnt be called alternative.

So at least give it a thought before you think of paying this people for their "Service". Funny how those opposed dont say any argument, i guess thats becuase there aint any.

[Kunji]

homeopathy is rubbish, it works as well as predicting your future and personality by the zodiac.

Some things in this world need to be crushed and fogotten.

[ric_vidal]

Treat the cause, not the symptom.

To a degree I agree with you YankR, but begs the question, if your body is going to heal itself why go to either natural or mainstream? Personally I prefer 'natural' remedies, but rarely have a need and generally just give something time and get the head in order dis-ease indeed!

The money is behind mainstream and they have been trying to kill off many of the ‘natural’ remedies for years. You have to ask why?

Your GP is fundamentally good for... thermometers, stitches, injections and dispensing prescriptions for pharmaceuticals synthesised in labs that may or may not work or sending you to someone up the line who may be able to help.

Here we go again... (I’ll try and be nice, I think I upset Bro already this year). Hang on a flying critter just landed in my tea. Oooh, he’s dead and has left bits floating!

Coops - Come on science guy, think of it scientifically: energy of the universe, certainly influences other aspects of life on earth like the weather, tide, nature in general, could there be something more?, You think WE might be effected by it somehow? I am, I got burnt to a crisp the other morning at DY. And IF we were it would stand to reason that the energy is constantly changing as we orbit, I’m sure you see where I am going with this. So perhaps there could be something in zodiacs. Oh sh*t that’s right we can’t prove it, therefore it doesn’t happen.

Future isn't written. Sheer speculation on my behalf of course.

Hate to disappoint you Coops, but homeopathy and other vibrational healing remedies do actually work. Plenty of case studies to support them. Ah, no I don't have them, but wifey worked for a company for years cataloguing the case studies. I don't think they particularly care about converting people, they are all growing steadily.

Think you might even find the pharmaceutical companies are spending a whole lot more time and money delving into the healing properties of plants and the like. Maybe if they launch something it will be more palatable to the masses.

It’s pretty old juju, we are just going full circle.

Had plenty of success where we couldn't through 'normal' medical channels with a homeopathic remedy for our kids when they had ear aches/infections. Kids too young to know what a placebo would be if you asked me. The medical profession usually end up wanting to put grommets in. Avoided that one!

Funnily enough there are quite a few ‘traditionally’ trained medical professionals who do a fair bit of dispensing ‘alternative’ remedies, so they couldn’t possibly work.

In coming!

[BA]

Hate to disappoint you Coops, but homeopathy and other vibrational healing remedies do actually work. Plenty of case studies to support them. Ah, no I don't have them, but wifey worked for a company for years cataloguing the case studies. I don't think they particularly care about converting people, they are all growing steadily.

Hmmmm. I remember a documentary on the ABC (I think it was a Catalyst special) a few years back that proved that homeopathy DOES NOT work. Lot's of contoversy at the time because they knew that it would create a stir.

I'll try and find more info when I get time.

[yanks r us]

To a degree I agree with you YankR, but begs the question, if your body is going to heal itself why go to either natural or mainstream? Personally I prefer 'natural' remedies, but rarely have a need and generally just give something time and get the head in order dis-ease indeed!

The money is behind mainstream and they have been trying to kill off many of the ‘natural’ remedies for years. You have to ask why?

The money is behind alternative too. They turn over bllions every year and even get money from the government.

Why? because testing it will classify if it works or not, thats why people test things - and none have conclusively shown any work, otherwise they wouldnt be called alternative in the first place.

Coops - Come on science guy, think of it scientifically: energy of the universe, certainly influences other aspects of life on earth like the weather, tide, nature in general, could there be something more?, You think WE might be effected by it somehow? I am, I got burnt to a crisp the other morning at DY. And IF we were it would stand to reason that the energy is constantly changing as we orbit, I’m sure you see where I am going with this. So perhaps there could be something in zodiacs. Oh sh*t that’s right we can’t prove it, therefore it doesn’t happen.

Please, dont talk about things you have no clue about - let alone conceptual ideas

Hate to disappoint you Coops, but homeopathy and other vibrational healing remedies do actually work. Plenty of case studies to support them. Ah, no I don't have them, but wifey worked for a company for years cataloguing the case studies. I don't think they particularly care about converting people, they are all growing steadily.

oh god no it doesnt. Actually studies dont show it. Meta-analysis (proper ones - where they discard unreliable and low participants) clear show statisically and practically that it doesnt work - it doesnt even better a placebo. Their claim would defy all physics - suprising you dont see any trying to find out about it - win a nobel prize, money, proof etc thats because its bs

Please, if you actually believe homepathy works watch this brief video of the basics and how rediculous it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93 ... re=related

[Kunji]

RV, the case studies i have seen on multiple docos were no better than chance. If anything they act as placebos, not as the crazy pseudo science they claim. eg water memory, dilution of water.

Homeopathy was invented in the late 18th century by Samuel Hahnemann. At the time it had the same success rates as medicine. This was because medicine at the time was not as developed as now. So it stuck. An alternative medicine was born.

Now days you cant say that with all knowledge of our own biology and chemical development that we are not better off than in those days.

Homeopathy is a dangerous and false practice which is highly expensive and has never been concluded as actually working. I urge anyone who is serioiusly sick to stay well clear of these quacks and seek proper medical attention.

James Randi has offered US$1000 000 if this can be proven, but as yet no-one has shown a test where any homeopathy has actually worked.

Now the Zodiac on the other hand is one of the easiest and funnest to disprove. When it was created they made mystical animals of the night sky by selecting a few stars. If the sun rises from the horizon in one of these animal night patterns then you have the traits of this creature.

Due to precession (wobble of the earths axis) everyone who now thinks they are a certain sign are actually the sign ahead of them. people who think, for example, that they are Sagitarius are actually capricorn.

Also it bases that the sun is at the centre of the solar system which in 2008 should never be even mentioned.

They claim that there is an energy from these signs and planets that influences who you are. Did i mention that they only knew about 5 planet at the time so the zodiac only goes as far as saturn. what about the rest?

Again no test has proven that anyone is like their sign. No more than anyother.

This rubbish is in every paper and most magazines. More mystic quack dumbing down the world with made believe nonsence.

Crush the lies, people!

[ric_vidal]

Dare say I will be on my own again here. Your attitude is pretty typical YankR, so is mine for the opposing, but certainly no hippy. I might add we don’t use homeopathics, but have for the kids as stated previously.

They turn over bllions every year and even get money from the government.

Why do you suppose the government would do this if it is a crock? All these poor misguided fools out there getting no results and throwing their hard earned money down the drain. Spare me the violins. It wouldn’t matter if it’s a placebo effect, if it gets results it gets results.

Here’s a left-field ‘conceptual idea’ for you YRS, every heard about the experiments growing fruit with certain types of music and the varying results. Or the work by Dr. Masaru Emoto http://www.whatthebleep.com/crystals/

Now how is this possible? Vibrational healing is the same principal. It is hard to accept, but it happens, even if it is by intention.

I can’t see atoms vibrating or light, sound or energy waves, but I am assured they exist. Test any essence and all THEY can trace is water and alcohol or another preservative. They can’t register or read the content beyond that.

Why? because testing it will classify if it works or not, thats why people test things - and none have conclusively shown any work, otherwise they wouldnt be called alternative in the first place.

They don’t call them alternative, they call them what they are, the medical professional calls them alternative and everything else they can think of and they systematically try to eliminate them year after year. Guess what Yanks, they are becoming more popular.

You might have to broaden your search. These are facts... Certain Australian remedies are used regularly to great effect in hospitals in Brazil. Essences were sent to victims of the Chernobyl disaster to treat kids, once again to great effect. How can you just arbitrarily say they don’t work.

Why hasn’t this been publicised? It has in SOME circles, beyond that I wonder myself. I’ll tell you this much though there is quite often a very different ethic that drives these people.

Coops - Come on science guy, think of it scientifically: energy of the universe, certainly influences other aspects of life on earth like the weather, tide, nature in general, could there be something more?, You think WE might be effected by it somehow? I am, I got burnt to a crisp the other morning at DY. And IF we were it would stand to reason that the energy is constantly changing as we orbit, I’m sure you see where I am going with this. So perhaps there could be something in zodiacs. Oh sh*t that’s right we can’t prove it, therefore it doesn’t happen.

Please, dont talk about things you have no clue about - let alone conceptual ideas

Don’t be condescending, it isn’t necessary and will achieve nought. You know little or nothing about the depth of my knowledge. Coops can/will deal with me as he sees fit, I know he won’t agree but it is part of his ongoing program.

Hate to disappoint you Coops, but homeopathy and other vibrational healing remedies do actually work. Plenty of case studies to support them. Ah, no I don't have them, but wifey worked for a company for years cataloguing the case studies. I don't think they particularly care about converting people, they are all growing steadily.

oh god no it doesnt. Actually studies dont show it. Meta-analysis (proper ones - where they discard unreliable and low participants) clear show statisically and practically that it doesnt work - it doesnt even better a placebo. Their claim would defy all physics - suprising you dont see any trying to find out about it - win a nobel prize, money, proof etc thats because its bs

Please, if you actually believe homepathy works watch this brief video of the basics and how rediculous it is.

Perhaps you might care to explain how the remedies we used on our kids worked then? It certainly wasn’t just due to time. Sorry but you are just going to have to take my word for it.

Meta-analyses, which analyze large groups of studies and draw conclusions based on the results as a whole, have been used to evaluate the effectiveness of homeopathy. Early meta-analyses investigating homeopathic remedies showed slightly positive results among the studies examined, however such studies have warned that it was impossible to draw conclusions due to low methodological quality and the unknown role of publication bias in the studies reviewed. A recent meta-analysis of clinical trials on the effectiveness of homeopathy has shown that earlier clinical trials showed signs of major weakness in methodology and reporting, and that homeopathy trials were less randomized and reported less on dropouts than other types of trials.

That doesn’t sound absolute to me.

[Kunji]

My ongoing programme.

We disagree you and i. But each learn.

[ric_vidal]

My ongoing programme.

We disagree you and i. But each learn.

I’ll be back with more learnin’ for you... sorry, us!

Gemini = multiple personality (disorders)

[Kunji]

So as a Gemini you are:

Every adolescent Gemini fantasy is to find the Prince or Princess of their dreams. As their lives unfold, the experiences, false starts, dramas, broken hearts and disillusionment they encounter seeking this personal Holy Grail, often shapes their futures in the most extra-ordinary manner. Love and love-lost makes a big difference to the Geminis although their often happy-go-lucky appearance against all kinds of odds may not reveal this as fact.

Gemini\'s can switch off from the world around then and during these periods much more occurs on the deep innermost levels of the Gemini\'s psyche, than their closest companions imagine. Many Geminis after establishing a lifestyle that somehow falls short of their childhood dreams, manage to conjure up a most independent life and keep up an image of being dedicated to a \"close relationship\". They can escape into obscure role playing - and often this makes them extremely successful business people. When it comes to romance and love, Geminis can be difficult to fathom yet in business many Geminis discover they can not only be creative, but it provides an opportunity to express the more diverse sides to their personalities. Their charm can win jobs and provides powerful friends. But in both work and play, looking for peace and harmony, Geminis often say \"yes\" when they should be saying \"no\".

Does this Gemini description fit you Mystic Ric? Be honest.

[Beanpole]

The whole AyuVedic System is based on homeopathy. Thats all of India basically. Personally I find it hard to swallow

A friends been visiting who's been on it for her rhyonitis but it sure didn't look like it had worked for her. Acupuncture has worked for me in the past and has also been very bad for me in the past. It depends on the person doing it. Thats one of my biggest beefs with alternative medicine.

Regular doctors have enough variation in ability and at least they've been to medical school. They usually seem to eager to wack you onto some tablets supplied by friendly drug companies. The older I get the more uncertain I become about all types of medicine.

[Kunji]

Beans, it depends on your practictioner. I work in the industry (adjacent to) and speak to doc all day. Their experience and knowledges vaires greatly. A specialist wont just write you a script and be gone with you, while your average GP working at a bulk billing centre, processing people like cows, would.

[ric_vidal]

If anything they act as placebos, not as the crazy pseudo science they claim. eg water memory, dilution of water.

Does it matter if it works as a placebo? ‘Intention’ is paramount.

Have a geek at Dr Emoto findings re water. Now that is crazy, what percentage water are we again, Dr Coops? Could I then suggest the same can happen in the human body, probably too much of a ‘conceptual idea’ for YRS.

Now days you cant say that with all knowledge of our own biology and chemical development that we are not better off than in those days.

Certainly we are better off, but you shouldn’t arbitrarily discount the past. Why have viruses mutated and become more immune to drugs?

Homeopathy is a dangerous and false practice which is highly expensive and has never been concluded as actually working. I urge anyone who is serioiusly sick to stay well clear of these quacks and seek proper medical attention.

So it’s gone from doing nothing do be being dangerous? If they don’t do anything, how can they be dangerous? Highly expensive? When was the last time you went to the dentist again?

Now the Zodiac on the other hand is one of the easiest and funnest to disprove. When it was created they made mystical animals of the night sky by selecting a few stars. If the sun rises from the horizon in one of these animal night patterns then you have the traits of this creature.

Due to precession (wobble of the earths axis) everyone who now thinks they are a certain sign are actually the sign ahead of them. people who think, for example, that they are Sagitarius are actually capricorn.

Also it bases that the sun is at the centre of the solar system which in 2008 should never be even mentioned.

They claim that there is an energy from these signs and planets that influences who you are. Did i mention that they only knew about 5 planet at the time so the zodiac only goes as far as saturn. what about the rest?

Again no test has proven that anyone is like their sign. No more than anyother.

With respect Coops I think once again you are being too literal, buried in the absolute fact. We know energies effects things, why not us? Whether the historical information about planets is right or wrong is irrelevant, the fact is they/we move, so doth the energy change. Mark my words naredowel.

This rubbish is in every paper and most magazines. More mystic quack dumbing down the world with made believe nonsence.

But who takes it THAT seriously? It’s a curiosity at best not something to live by.