Sink the slipper into John Howard here...

[puurri]

and trying to stop the traditional buggery in the outback were also OK by me.

interesting turn of phrase there felix. you certainly lapped up the marketing.

'traditional' probably should have been 'ritual'.

Why do you think Fred Hollows was so concerned, as were many of us who were there?

So, put up or shut up eh. You have a PM to 'splayn or I put you out there for the crows.

[ether]

Iraq will be an interesting situation though, one that not even Smnmntl can sum up in sweeping generalisations, abuse and emoticons The troops may come out in 12 months or so but it's hard to picture a complete Australian withdrawl from the region for at least 5 years - I would have loved to have heard what Rudd promised Bush during their private meeting at APEC. I'm betting some of you pinkos wouldn't be as keen to fly his flag if we knew.

You really are a muppet. Of course we know that Kevin isn't going to change the withdrawal plan from Iraq. The Americans will be there until the war aims are met & we'll be there in some way with them (low key, low body count, just like now) courtesy of the all-important alliance which Kevin re-committed us to the instant he'd won.

Us 'pinkos' mightn't be delighted about it but the suggestion of naivety is ridiculous.
[/i]

[Buff_Brad]

trying to stop the traditional buggery in the outback were also OK by me.........

You ill-informed ignorant patronising cnut felix fcuk face. other than that you seem like a really nice guy.

[ether]

Every conceivable leadership prospect for the Coalition - Turnbull, Downer, Abbott? - is a prancing clown guaranteed to keep the Libs safely out of power for years

You missed the best one: Brendan Nelson, who's apparently looking at throwing his hat in the ring. Described by one journo as being Andrew Peacock without the substance.

[porca]

Can anyone actually give me an example of how they have been personally affected by the IR laws, I'm really interested to hear. I'm in small business and I know many others who are too and those who I have asked about this are concerned about the potentail reversal of these laws.

Given that we're at the lowest levels of unemplyoment in 30+ years, if the IR laws are changed, guaranteed business will be far more reluctant to employ.

I know one business owner who employs 12 people in mix between permanent and part time, and that person is saying that if the laws change, 2 people may have to go if there is not the flexibility left in the system that this company needs (as do it's employees) ie. 17% of one business' workforce. Small business is this country's largest employer so you do the maths.

My point is that the IR Laws appear to be the No 1 reason why people voted Labor (based on what I've read, heard and watched) so I'll be very interested to see how changes to these laws affect a record low level of unemployment.

How will Kevin handle that? Especially when those that voted for him are suddenly out of work...

Yeah I ll give you an example, school kids that I teach asked to sign an awa with no penalty rates for weekends, public holidays, or late night work. Thats enough for me they have no bargaining power, sign the contract (with your parents signature) or fuck off we can get someone else to take the job.

[Nick Carroll]

Iraq will be an interesting situation though

No it is not f**ken "interesting", it is a place where hundreds of thousands of people have died as a direct result of the "invasion" of 2003, which was delivered to the world by the neo-conservative theorists of Washington DC (who'd never actually been to war themselves and still haven't) and about which we were comprehensively lied to by the Government of the day (none of whose members went to the last ridiculous adventure in Vietnam, which resulted in the deaths of, count 'em, TWO MILLION Vietnamese).

Iraq, like Vietnam, was and is "interesting" or "successful" only to those with insufficient imagination to picture the results.

Maybe that was LJH's real problem, no imagination. Well guess what, it's not something he needs to concern himself with any more, no doubt to his relief. Other people will have to help clean up the s**t -- or not.

[Hairy_Joseph]

ha...i always considered the general australian populace as a uselass pack of half-wit whingers...but i NEVER thought they'd be so stupid to elect Labor to power. no doubt when times to get harder, these same morons who support Labor will be the first to whinge...after all theyre probably the same wankers who have been whinging relentlessly about 6 percent interest rates because they were too dumb-as-shit to factor in an interest rate rise when deciding how much money they could afford to borrow. sure, liberal isnt perfect, but the people in this country have enjoyed prosperity under the libs for the last 12 years or whatever...and labour hasnt been able to get its act together till now. i have a hard time believing anything that kevin rudd and his socialist whore of a sidekick gillard have to say...neither of them knows how to answer a question without reverting to labours "working families" propaganda and every sentence that comes out of their mouth sounds pre-prepared. at least howard could be convincing when he was lying. i hope you people enjoy the last remaining vestiges of economic prosperity in this country, because i assure you it wont last and you will all have something real to whinge about when labour and their smug little puppet f*ck us all over. a very dark day in this nations history.

[Felix]

trying to stop the traditional buggery in the outback were also OK by me.........

You ill-informed ignorant patronising cnut felix fcuk face. other than that you seem like a really nice guy.

You would obviously know more about buggery than me, Brad. I defer to you.

[puurri]

^^^^ Hairy Joseph
A cut and paste from someone without the smarts to think it through.

And you; back in the zoo enclosure eh?

Meanwhile the party trogs viz Clark and sundry factional warriors leave the LIBS another 12 plus years if at all to regain the middle ground.

At least Turnbull gets my tick as a true fella. Garrett, FFS!

[porca]

ha...i always considered the general australian populace as a uselass pack of half-wit whingers...but i NEVER thought they'd be so stupid to elect Labor to power. no doubt when times to get harder, these same morons who support Labor will be the first to whinge...after all theyre probably the same wankers who have been whinging relentlessly about 6 percent interest rates because they were too dumb-as-shit to factor in an interest rate rise when deciding how much money they could afford to borrow. sure, liberal isnt perfect, but the people in this country have enjoyed prosperity under the libs for the last 12 years or whatever...and labour hasnt been able to get its act together till now. i have a hard time believing anything that kevin rudd and his socialist ruffy of a sidekick gillard have to say...neither of them knows how to answer a question without reverting to labours "working families" propaganda and every sentence that comes out of their mouth sounds pre-prepared. at least howard could be convincing when he was lying. i hope you people enjoy the last remaining vestiges of economic prosperity in this country, because i assure you it wont last and you will all have something real to whinge about when labour and their smug little puppet f*ck us all over. a very dark day in this nations history.

There has been 6 interest rate rises this year dumb ass. prosperity under libs hahahahah more of my wage (higher percentage) goes on the mortgage now than when interest rates were 17% Howard was treasurer when interest rates were 22%

[sean--]

Brilliant statesman who's experience will be sorely missed in this country.

Complying with the current model of Kyoto will be very expensive for this country, a lot of industries will struggle and hence unemployment will rise but thankfully the unions will be back now to go on strike every time a business has to make a tough decision just to survive..er I mean the unions will keep us strong again. Ah well, bring on the interest rates, nothing like an impossible mortgage to focus the family unit.

Interesting times ahead.

Wake up idiot.

1: There's no pain-free solution to the problem of climate change. It's going to involve a complete overhaul of our industries and consumption patterns. Sooner or later we're going to have to bite the bullet, and businesses and individuals and - gasp! - the economy - are going to suffer. I'd much rather see a PM with vision and the willingness to go on the front foot, making Australia a leader in addressing the most pressing issue we've ever faced, rather than keeping us the world's biggest per capita wasters of energy & resources.

I'm not saying Rudd's necessarily the man for the job. But he's certainly more alert to the climate change problem than Howard, who only recently (and reluctantly) stopped denying that there was any problem at all, and whose vision has largely extended to saying "well, we're not going to do anything radical if it's going to hurt our economy". The hurt is coming, whether we like it or not, and to pussy out on making the hard decisions (in order to serve corporate business interests) is grossly irresponsible.

2: Unions do lots of useful things apart from going on strike & fucking businesses over. The Coalition's scare campaign on "union bosses" has appealed to the absolute lowest common denominator of intelligence, and yet there you are sucking it right up.

3: Control over interest rates is not entirely in the hands of any government. The Reserve Bank and global financial circumstances have as much influence over the direction of interest rates as the government does. Which is why they've been going up, in spite of Howard's best efforts to keep them low. It's not entirely his fault, and it won't be entirely Rudd's fault if they go up under Labor.

4: I am so fucking sick of seeing political debate in Australia reduced to arguments about the economy. I've got a large mortgage, and I'm as vulnerable to economic hard times as anyone else. But no matter how bad things get, I'll still be doing pretty well by comparison with a refugee banged up in a detention centre, or a bloke with three casual jobs who still can't afford to take a holiday or pay his bills, or most Muslim immigrants, or almost any indigenous Australian you care to mention. And then there are all those thousands of dead Iraqi civilians whose slaughter Australia has actively supported in a war that we had no moral or strategic cause to be involved in. And I'm probably better off than most people involved in tertiary education or the arts, who have had their funding & resources cut year by year by year.

These are all the people your "brilliant statesman" has screwed for the past decade, while ramping up xenophobia and racism and the "war on terror" and playing on the meanest, narrowest, dumbest & most self-centred interests of the electorate. You're probably too thick to realise it, but all this is just as important to the fabric of Australian society as the economy.

Anyway... interesting times indeed. Suck shit, loser, and I hope you get an ulcer watching the latte sippers, chardonnay swillers, bleeding hearts and limp-wristed do-gooders run the country for a while

Well said. The people got it right. Rudd's in for some hard times and we'll see how he handles it. If he doesn't work out then he'll have to face the people in 3 years time.
As for the old union scare stories ppppfffffttttttt.......

[macca202]

Can anyone actually give me an example of how they have been personally affected by the IR laws, I'm really interested to hear

...

Yeah I ll give you an example, school kids that I teach asked to sign an awa with no penalty rates for weekends, public holidays, or late night work. Thats enough for me they have no bargaining power, sign the contract (with your parents signature) or **** off we can get someone else to take the job.

care to offer a few more details?

[mustkillmulloway]

He did pay back Labor debts and bring Australia to a low unemployment rate and a strong economy. No matter whose in power, by the end of their term they will **** up, and everyone will be bitching on them. Useless

yeah but wats the point in owning a house out right :?

i mean isn't it better too borrow against it and invest in the future

but i fully agree rest u post best thing about a federal labour goverment is we can now happly vote OUT THE CORRUPT/USELESS state gov'ts first chance we get

p.s howards no loser....he'll have a yearly pension many us will have work 60 hours a week for....plus free travel....and no doubt some company he gave a grant too will hire him

[2nd Reef]

Goodbye to the Liberal alchemists; trying to boil everything down to dollars.


The best slogan from the election - 'We are a society not just an economy'.

[porca]

not going to mention names the gong is a small place to live

[Moby]

porca said:"not going to mention names the gong is a small place to live"

Fair enough, what type of business are you referring to? Another question, do you know anyone of voting age that's been affected?

[Nick Carroll]

a very dark day in this nations history.

for you and Bronwyn Bishop

[mc]

Finally Howard's gone. Hopefully we can now become a less divided country and less focused on making money at all costs. People have been brainwashed into thinking you are what you drive or how big your TV is. I totally agree with what smnmtl initially said, as well as NC and 2nd Reef.

On the outside Howard seemed very decent and sincere but he was a very mean spirited man who struggled to show any empathy to those who were really down.

Anyway that's my fist ever post.