Who owns the ASP?

[special_k]

Surfing is after all the most electric activity that humans have yet discovered, but comps remain spasmodically captivating and mostly dull.

I disagree , the comps are only dull when the surf is shit and/or so inconsistent that the heat winner is ascertained on luck rather than performance. I enjoy watching the asp events too, lots of time is taken up waiting for waves but yeah think about how many dot balls in cricket you have to watch in order to see a few wickets and boundaries? Pretty popular sport the ol' cricket. And the commentary at times keeps it really going.

Maybe there's room for better surf commentators???

Don't worry Nick , I think you are one of the better ones mate.

[Nick Carroll]

^^Maybe, but nobody wants to pay the commentators. Which is why it's all over the shop. The only time I do it is when one of my clients has a cross-sponsorship deal with the event (ie Billabong Teahupoo).

Pretty weird if you ask me, since it's the only direct contact most events have with the wider surf-interested world. You'd think the commentary would be regarded as a professional skill, the way it is in pretty much every other sport, broadcast or webcast.

In the 1980s, contests has $40,000 in prizemoney, yet they paid the on-site commentary teams good money to get the job done right. These days, the events are giving away $300,000 plus, they're running on budgets of a million and a half, and nobody pays the commentators.

Actually that is REALLY weird.

[grazza]

Totally agree on loser's round - absolute waste of time. 1 & 2 progress.

Set structure - I like it. I seem to remember TC beating crammy 2 sets to 0 at Northie one pre-historic coke classic. Should the one wave be claimed on completion like in the various skins comps over the years?

I was a big fan of the Slalom format that Fitzy introduced at the Pro Junior. I liked that everyone surfed against everyone else, and to win you had to have a massive score. Could be rejigged, I think.

Keep 'em coming Nick. Anyone else??

[Karlos]

Eliminate the loser's round.

You know it makes sense.

I'm Sam Kekovich.

[grazza]

Always loved your commentaries Nick, but you're one of the few I really like listening to. Mitch Ross is coming along nicely. Gerlach has done a few and was truly great.

As for all the other time-serving company wankers who think that we are vitally interested in the internal machinations of the quikripabong marketing team - please. And yes Shmoo, for once we are talking about you.

Plus, no more "I was so great" commentators - chief offenders - Pottz, Shaun Tomson.

Surfing needs its Richie Benaud or Bruce McIlvaney - someone who's there all the time, whose voice equals surfing.

[2nd Reef]

Can you explain the slalom format Graz?

I kinda agree with Spec K in that I like the current format. It's simple enough for average punters to understand, yet leaves enough room for the surfers to use various tactics.

Commentators just have to explain those tactics to us.

[2nd Reef]

And if the ASP needs someone to make up some simple, easy to read charts that show the position each surfer has to get for their end of year placings....well, I know just the bloke.

[grazza]

Slalom Format:

• - Final 16 surfers (but could be any number really)
  - Surfers are randomly allocated a position to surf from 1 to 16.
  - Surfer 1 has 5 minutes to catch a wave. As soon as he catches the wave, the five minutes for surfer 2 (who is sitting waiting in the line up) starts, and so on until each surfer has one wave score to their name.
  - Surfers are resorted, with surfer 1 being the lowest scoring surfer, and surfer 16 being the highest scoring.
  - So on, over four rounds, best three scores counting to the total, Surfer with the highest three wave total wins.

A variation I thought of was to have a cut, like in golf, where after two rounds, 4 bottom surfers get cut, an after three rounds bottom 4 surfers surfers get cut. Or maybe you could keep cutting until you have a single winner.

It works because:

• - Every surfer surfs against every other surfer -no weak heats
  - absolutely no hassling - the line up is yours
  - Winning score is always massive
  - You get to watch all surfers at once rather waiting for that one heat with Mick in it.
  - You always know what people need to make it through - exciting.
  - It's quicker

Critics said that it was unfair because you could get skunked in your 5 minute slot, but hey that happens in heats too and it evens up over a few rounds. Having said that it might be difficult at super long period swell locations when no set come through for 15 minutes.

NC, what did you think of it? My lad won the Cadet Cup in 2001 under this format (maybe that's why I like it?) and as I remember you were on the mike that day.[/list]

[grazza]

^

In the 1980s, contests has $40,000 in prizemoney, yet they paid the on-site commentary teams good money to get the job done right. These days, the events are giving away $300,000 plus, they're running on budgets of a million and a half, and nobody pays the commentators.

Actually that is REALLY weird.

Not weird if you were listening to that seppo chick commentating on the recent Zilla comp. Apart from making comments that were just plain mis-information (and then having herself corrected by viewers emailing her the facts), got sick of her self promotion and lines like "if you want to see what I look like, visit www.blah blah Like, we give a f##k... Finally DID see what she looked like and she was a hag..............so, nah, not really surprising she was doing it for free.

You're right though, on a relatively big budget why wouldn't you pay somebody who HAS got their shit together and can entertain viewers to some degree in between sets

She really was the pits, eh? Surely we can do better than that? Nuno (co-commentator) is dull as dishwater too. Commentators should actually no what's going in the sport, and those two were clueless.

I don't know if I was the only one watching (which is a pretty state of affairs because it was probably the best comp of the year), but the 4 star WQS at El Confital in the Canaries had the best commentators - couldn't understand a single word but it was like those South American soccer (sorry football) guys that go off the ritcher - so fun. Best waves of the year, too, 10s dropping all over the place.

[Nick Carroll]

NC, what did you think of it? My lad won the Cadet Cup in 2001 under this format (maybe that's why I like it?) and as I remember you were on the mike that day.[/list]

I liked the slalom format a lot and thought it was very entertaining to watch. Great seeing 16 different surfers back to back, bam bam bam -- and different guys leading every couple of minutes.

But it was hampered by conditions, which make such a system very erratic and quite hard to follow unless the surf is clean and predictable. 16 really good set waves? Big call.

The way in which the experiment was ended was particularly brutal (ie just pull the Pro Junior's ranking and replace it with a more conventional event - a really ugly moment in Aussie competitive surfing, that one) and says a lot about why event system change will only ever happen in increments. Because most people with a say in it have a lot invested in the system as is. Pro event systems start at the top, not the bottom, and the guys who have a say at the top end (ie the older top pros) are those who have most to lose by a system change.

[mustkillmulloway]

Then using the extra time gained, make heats from the 16-man round into three-set matches, each set 10 minutes in length and scored simply on the highest wave. No "combos"; trailing surfer in a set has a simple score to beat. Winner being whoever gets the match 2-0 or 2-1.

).

that sounds quite dynamic....especially in quality waves

( bring back the g-land pro )

i find it silly that sponsors don't put a bit budget into the running of the comp...{i.e...better paid commentators....better paid camera persons}

as really the 2nd rate product thats now produced is directly bonded too there brands

i wasn't a big fan the slalom format...but than it never got a real chance....the skins made for must watch tv

i still can't see wats wrong with kellys idea

p.s and nick.....i bet those very same pro surfers un willing or un able too change the system are the same ones whingin about not getting enough prizemoney

as it stands.....the asp is treading water....a decade on....i can see it dead and burried

[easty]

The simple solution will come when wave pools are good enough to hold serious contests. Hold whatever format you like with guaranteed waves and it will be entertaining.

Until then the asp is at the mercy of the ocean.

[grazza]

I liked the slalom format a lot and thought it was very entertaining to watch. Great seeing 16 different surfers back to back, bam bam bam -- and different guys leading every couple of minutes.

But it was hampered by conditions, which make such a system very erratic and quite hard to follow unless the surf is clean and predictable. 16 really good set waves? Big call.

The way in which the experiment was ended was particularly brutal (ie just pull the Pro Junior's ranking and replace it with a more conventional event - a really ugly moment in Aussie competitive surfing, that one) and says a lot about why event system change will only ever happen in increments. Because most people with a say in it have a lot invested in the system as is. Pro event systems start at the top, not the bottom, and the guys who have a say at the top end (ie the older top pros) are those who have most to lose by a system change.

The destruction of a brilliant event with such an incredible heritage was a low point in our competitive history. Mostly it was cold-blooded opportunism by ... well just look who owns the slot now...but wiping out a great experiment like slalom as collateral damage was a real pity. I think any criticism of the slalom system applies equally to the traditional heat system. We've all watched many heats where sheer luck determined the outcome, as waves come to one surfer rather than another.

Slalom would have been insane at say Pipe or Snapper. It deserved a better go. It was almost impossible for the format not to deliver a close, exciting finish. It should at least be a candidate.