Hicks get 9 months
Moderators: jimmy, collnarra, PeepeelaPew, Butts, beach_defender, Shari, Forum Moderators
Hicks get 9 months
The prick that helps kill peeps gets 9 months, if he helped to kill my family I'd want death.
-
Beanpole
- That's Not Believable
- Posts: 68780
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:21 am
- Location: Button Factory
Everyone deserves a fair trial. If they don't then the terrorists have allready won.
I still see Hicks as only a potential threat insofar as he was in a country run buy the lunatics he aspired to be with. The US invaded that country. He may have been planning something but he didn't invade America. He may have wanted to shoot Allied forces in Afganistan but if there were no Allied forces there then that would mean little.
The point is I don't know what he was up to and neither does anybody else in the general public. With the guilty plea when will anyone know?
The classic was Downer saying,"Well if he only said he was guilty to get out then he is guilty of perjury."
Catch 22 :?
I still see Hicks as only a potential threat insofar as he was in a country run buy the lunatics he aspired to be with. The US invaded that country. He may have been planning something but he didn't invade America. He may have wanted to shoot Allied forces in Afganistan but if there were no Allied forces there then that would mean little.
The point is I don't know what he was up to and neither does anybody else in the general public. With the guilty plea when will anyone know?
The classic was Downer saying,"Well if he only said he was guilty to get out then he is guilty of perjury."
Catch 22 :?
Well that depends. Are you including time served (5 years witout trial, in a gaol condemned by pretty much every international body, with numerous accounts and evidence of torture, in sub-human conditions, lack of due process, charged with laws implemented post supposed crime under a regime of blatant human rights abuse)?prowler wrote:How does the time for purgery stack up to the nine months he got for whatever he was charged with?
Seriously, no one's ever gonna know what evidence they had on him, and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they'd offered the 9 months pre-guilty plea so they could acheive exactly that. By the time FOI comes into play, it'll be 100% black markered, and/or there'll be a "Freedom Law" stating that the US doesn't have to release documents they deem sensitive to security or inciting public unrest, or some other such bs... And personally I wouldn't trust a word the "Coalition of the Willing" say about these matters.
The whole thing's a sham, any chance they had of attempting to bring these people to some form of legitimate justice in an unconventional war (and at least in part an illegitimate war) was lost when their rules of detainment were setup. And they started breaking legal precedents left right and centre.
Watched a doco with a story about a cab driver from iraq who enquired as to the reasons one of his fellow employees had been arrested. The US arrested him, threw him in guantanemo with said fellow employee, and he's now going on his 5th year in there with no charge. His friend was released with no charge after 3...
Warning: Early morning preaching ahead
Pixelman, you come across to me as an angry 12 year old, and it's fine to be angry, but what you may not have learnt yet, is blind hate and conviction without facts is not the way to go. Especially in situations such as these, where you're gonna have two sides of the story, both all but lying through their teeth to get "their" point across.
Sorry to sound all confuscious, but I've only come to get a grip of that concept recently myself.
Plus it's late in the night...
-
dammit__01
- Owl status
- Posts: 4599
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 10:26 pm
- Location: R.I.P. Signatures
[Rant]
For Fucks Sake peoples, its another big fuck off conspiracy, you dont wanna fuck with USA or you get fucked.
5 years of illegal torture, illegally eing held in prison, for what? An offence that wasnt illegal whilst he did it. So much for human rights yea? Got a big fucking bullshit trial, had no hope in winning if he tried, 2 lawyers told to piss off for no good reason. To make matters even better the 5 years in hell were not considered during his trial, they were "dismissed". Now if you fucking try and tell me this bloke got off easy
He wasnt guilty at what they put on his, but the "fair trial" was never gonna determin this.
Lets think about this, 9 months, and he cannot speak out publicly, oh wait, doesnt that mean he is getting out JUST after the election? Once thats over he can finally speak out on what the fuck went on? Johnny Howard has some skeletons in his closet, and he wants to keep it that way, at least until Costello takes over
So Pixelmin, Shut the fuck up on something you know nothing about you conservative bastard
[/Rant]
For Fucks Sake peoples, its another big fuck off conspiracy, you dont wanna fuck with USA or you get fucked.
5 years of illegal torture, illegally eing held in prison, for what? An offence that wasnt illegal whilst he did it. So much for human rights yea? Got a big fucking bullshit trial, had no hope in winning if he tried, 2 lawyers told to piss off for no good reason. To make matters even better
the 5 years in hell were not considered during his trial, they were "dismissed". Now if you fucking try and tell me this bloke got off easy He wasnt guilty at what they put on his, but the "fair trial" was never gonna determin this.
Lets think about this, 9 months, and he cannot speak out publicly, oh wait, doesnt that mean he is getting out JUST after the election? Once thats over he can finally speak out on what the fuck went on? Johnny Howard has some skeletons in his closet, and he wants to keep it that way, at least until Costello takes over
So Pixelmin, Shut the fuck up on something you know nothing about you conservative bastard
[/Rant]
Sorry, but last i saw, the survivors of changi, dachau, aushwutiz, siberia, hell fire... the prisoners being civilian or soldiers never gained weight. he has no right to winge moan and cry once he gets out and his supporters should gaze at a book about hell fire pass. get some perspective.
just to cover the fact that some one will jump around over psychological torture...he will live, like may have not
just to cover the fact that some one will jump around over psychological torture...he will live, like may have not
why isn't he getting put in jail for life. He was part of a terrorist organisation so who needs a fair trial when he pleaded guilty. Dammit your a goose mate get over your shit conspiracy theories about the governments. Can u even vote yet buddy, who ever is in charge will always cope shit and everyone will say the next guy is better. He got off extreamly lightly...
-
cheesey101
- regular
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:43 pm
u obviously dont no much about david hicks and wat he was doing over theirrazorback wrote:why isn't he getting put in jail for life. He was part of a terrorist organisation so who needs a fair trial when he pleaded guilty. Dammit your a goose mate get over your shit conspiracy theories about the governments. Can u even vote yet buddy, who ever is in charge will always cope shit and everyone will say the next guy is better. He got off extreamly lightly...
-
yanks r us
- charger
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: Shelly Beach
Usually when people go on a rant they have no clue what they're talking aboutdammit__01 wrote:[Rant]
For **** Sake peoples, its another big **** off conspiracy, you dont wanna **** with USA or you get ****.
5 years of illegal torture, illegally eing held in prison, for what? An offence that wasnt illegal whilst he did it. So much for human rights yea? Got a big **** bullshit trial, had no hope in winning if he tried, 2 lawyers told to piss off for no good reason. To make matters even better
[/Rant]
You make him seem like some sort of untouchable fairy, and that the prison should be entertaining for those in it, plasma tv's, croquet etc
Wake up little boy, you deserve a spanking
Jesus... Everyone of you other than dammit & cheesy is acting like just because he pleaded guilty after 5 years of torture makes it so...
The whole reason we have the westernised justice system is so that things like a guilty plea can be assumed legitimate ignoring some external pressure.
5 years without charge, and 5 years of torture and denial of basic human rights doesn't leave it too hard to imagine a dud guilty plea to get the fuck out of there. Particularly when you look at the minor sentence handed down to him.
Here's some articles about another "confession" the US have managed to get out of a terrorist mastermind after nearly 4 years of detention, only 6 months of which were in Guantanemo. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:
Wiki: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confesses To Confessing Under Torture *This one's satire, but the point remains.*
Something that particularly sticks out about this enormous list of confessed crimes, (apart from the unbelievable size of operation he was running seemingly undeterred by the USA) is that the murder of Daniel Pearl (to which Sheikh Mohammed has confessed to and by razorback's logic, he must've done) has already been found, by proper process and legal avenues (irrelevant things such as evidence and other pesky bi-products of justice) to have been done by Sheikh Omar, for which he has been punished for with a sentence to death.
Now, no doubt Sheikh Mohammed is a nasty piece of work, but the known facts (let alone the unkown facts) of his detainment and confessions in any other court of law would totally discredit the plea. Near enough is good enough when it comes to terrorists apparently.
My point is, it's well known the Human Rights violations being commited in Guantanemo, among other US detentional facilities for Illegal Combatants... There's no way you can argue "He said he's guilty, so let's burn him at the stake".
Dammit: Whenever you're trying to legitimately argue about something, don't refer to a conspiracy. It has instant connotations whic discredit you and your argument as nutjobs.
Nick-W: Do you honestly think the Americans would let Hicks turn up half starved, beaten and bruised in front of the world media for the first time in 5 years? A 6 month diet of fatty foods would've gained more than enough weight to pass off as having gained weight. Would love to see how some of the actual arabs come out of there... Torture's torture, and as the Noble Crusaders or whatever the latest catch phrase is, the west, and in particular the USA are supposed to be above it and introducing freedom and democracy, not a new reign of terror under a different regime.
Yanks: It ain't always not knowing what you're on about. Sometimes it's absolute astonishment at the ignorance and lack of individual thought people can display in front of such serious issues. He's not an "untouchable fairy", but he's certainly not the mastermind of 9/11 either.
Hicks was in Afghanistan, fighting a WAR inside the borders of the country. Just because he's on the other side to the West, shouldn't make him some monster who deserves life imprisonment. He's commited no war crimes, just fought back. This usually invokes a status as a POW, but America manged to loophole that little inconvenience too.
The whole reason we have the westernised justice system is so that things like a guilty plea can be assumed legitimate ignoring some external pressure.
5 years without charge, and 5 years of torture and denial of basic human rights doesn't leave it too hard to imagine a dud guilty plea to get the fuck out of there. Particularly when you look at the minor sentence handed down to him.
Here's some articles about another "confession" the US have managed to get out of a terrorist mastermind after nearly 4 years of detention, only 6 months of which were in Guantanemo. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:
Wiki: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
CIA officials have previously told ABC News that "Mohammed lasted the longest under water boarding, two and a half minutes, before beginning to talk.
Terrorist's confession exposes dark side of USOne CIA official cautioned that "many of Mohammed's claims during interrogation were 'white noise' designed to send the U.S. on wild goose chases or to get him through the day's interrogation session."
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confesses To Confessing Under Torture *This one's satire, but the point remains.*
Something that particularly sticks out about this enormous list of confessed crimes, (apart from the unbelievable size of operation he was running seemingly undeterred by the USA) is that the murder of Daniel Pearl (to which Sheikh Mohammed has confessed to and by razorback's logic, he must've done) has already been found, by proper process and legal avenues (irrelevant things such as evidence and other pesky bi-products of justice) to have been done by Sheikh Omar, for which he has been punished for with a sentence to death.
Now, no doubt Sheikh Mohammed is a nasty piece of work, but the known facts (let alone the unkown facts) of his detainment and confessions in any other court of law would totally discredit the plea. Near enough is good enough when it comes to terrorists apparently.
My point is, it's well known the Human Rights violations being commited in Guantanemo, among other US detentional facilities for Illegal Combatants... There's no way you can argue "He said he's guilty, so let's burn him at the stake".
Dammit: Whenever you're trying to legitimately argue about something, don't refer to a conspiracy. It has instant connotations whic discredit you and your argument as nutjobs.
Nick-W: Do you honestly think the Americans would let Hicks turn up half starved, beaten and bruised in front of the world media for the first time in 5 years? A 6 month diet of fatty foods would've gained more than enough weight to pass off as having gained weight. Would love to see how some of the actual arabs come out of there... Torture's torture, and as the Noble Crusaders or whatever the latest catch phrase is, the west, and in particular the USA are supposed to be above it and introducing freedom and democracy, not a new reign of terror under a different regime.
Yanks: It ain't always not knowing what you're on about. Sometimes it's absolute astonishment at the ignorance and lack of individual thought people can display in front of such serious issues. He's not an "untouchable fairy", but he's certainly not the mastermind of 9/11 either.
Hicks was in Afghanistan, fighting a WAR inside the borders of the country. Just because he's on the other side to the West, shouldn't make him some monster who deserves life imprisonment. He's commited no war crimes, just fought back. This usually invokes a status as a POW, but America manged to loophole that little inconvenience too.
So if he is a POW and POW's are returned after the war is over and treaties are signed...he should be returned when the never ending war on terrrorism is finished?
Good plan Sydney.
So 6 months of good treatment make a G'bay prisoner "jolly" "fat", "seems like he has gained weight"....
Torture couldn't have been that nasty. If you discount this, you discount the view of your fellow Hick's supporters, well they were supporters, until they found that he was jolly and fat like santa.
Good plan Sydney.
So 6 months of good treatment make a G'bay prisoner "jolly" "fat", "seems like he has gained weight"....
Torture couldn't have been that nasty. If you discount this, you discount the view of your fellow Hick's supporters, well they were supporters, until they found that he was jolly and fat like santa.
Don't confuse what Hicks did with what happened to him. Hicks is a psycho no doubt, anyone who voluntarily goes to war - thinking that killing people is a big adventure is a psycho. I wouldn't have cared less if he got a bullet in the head on the first day the Yanks invaded Afganistan or if he ended up in a foreign prison for life.
But what happened to him is another matter - something that we should all care deeply about - because it could happen to to any of us.
What Howard and Bush have done is throw out the legal structures that protect us from the abuse of power by governments. The Stalanist show trial we've just witness proves it, the outcome was about the Australian election not justice.
You might say well, detention without trial, torture, trials in ad hoc military courts, politically motivated gag orders, that's what we need to protect us from terrorism and terrorists deserve all that. But it could be any of us that it happens to - wrong place, wrong time, wrong intelligence and suddenly you find yourself with no rights. It won't happen to me you say, our defence and intelligence bureaucrats are supremely competent and never make mistakes and if they did they'd own up to them and put everything right - they'd have to own up, because there are no checks on their power or opportunity for public scrutiny and sure as hell no accountability at any level of government under the current system.
Forget about Hicks he's not the issue, the issue is the removal of habaes corpus, retrospective legislation, coerced evidence and confessions.
But what happened to him is another matter - something that we should all care deeply about - because it could happen to to any of us.
What Howard and Bush have done is throw out the legal structures that protect us from the abuse of power by governments. The Stalanist show trial we've just witness proves it, the outcome was about the Australian election not justice.
You might say well, detention without trial, torture, trials in ad hoc military courts, politically motivated gag orders, that's what we need to protect us from terrorism and terrorists deserve all that. But it could be any of us that it happens to - wrong place, wrong time, wrong intelligence and suddenly you find yourself with no rights. It won't happen to me you say, our defence and intelligence bureaucrats are supremely competent and never make mistakes and if they did they'd own up to them and put everything right - they'd have to own up, because there are no checks on their power or opportunity for public scrutiny and sure as hell no accountability at any level of government under the current system.
Forget about Hicks he's not the issue, the issue is the removal of habaes corpus, retrospective legislation, coerced evidence and confessions.
Seems like there is a lot of hearsay on both sides here. Those of you who are anti what has happened to Hicks should remember your "quotes" have no more concrete basis than the stories about torture in Guantonomo Bay.
I'm not prepared to swear to the facts or otherwise on either side.
But everyone seems to have forgotten what the religious fanatics in Afghanistan were doing to women especially and anyone else who opposed their regime prior to the "War on Terror".
Those facts were attested to by the same peace organisations who now condemn the US actions.
I'm not prepared to swear to the facts or otherwise on either side.
But everyone seems to have forgotten what the religious fanatics in Afghanistan were doing to women especially and anyone else who opposed their regime prior to the "War on Terror".
Those facts were attested to by the same peace organisations who now condemn the US actions.
-
yanks r us
- charger
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: Shelly Beach
What I meant by what happened to him could happen to us - is the loss of the basic protections our justice system used to have.yanks r us wrote:As soon as i read that i didnt bother with the rest.pinhead wrote:
But what happened to him is another matter - something that we should all care deeply about - because it could happen to to any of us.
I couldnt imagine most of us going over to iraq, and fight & train with terrorists.
How about this - you've just got back from a muslim country (Indo) you've still got a 6 day growth, you are driving down the street eating a Kebab, you've got a boot load of ammonium nitrate for your dad's garden and the cops stop you - let's say the cops are morons and they just don't like you and decide to lock you up while ASIO checks you out. Under the current laws you you can't call your family to say where you are and they can hold you for two weeks without charging you.
(Hicks didn't go to fight in Iraq - where'd you get that from?)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: buddy and 235 guests