Blue boards

[Hawkeye]

The other point somebody made was about putting shapers out of business. As far as I understand it, the shapers who have designs made in tuflite usually receive royalties, so it's not all doom and gloom.

smw1 my concern is not that shapers would personally go broke, but that the traditional board makers will find it hard to compete. These boards are more expensive now but with high volumes prices will come down. Once they are at or below traditional board prices the pressure will really be on those businesses...

Yes, you're right. Ultimately the market will determine whether any new technology will dominate the market, share it, or fade away.

Do people prefer a board that is stronger, lighter, with a proven shape, or do they prefer to take a bit of a risk to get a board to exactly to their specs that might or might not work as they expect and will definitely not last as long? The market will tell us.

Surfboard manufacture has been in the handicraft/cottage industry phase, using the same methods and living in a bubble for well over 50 years. So I think it's fair to say that technological change is overdue.

Ranting that the market is wrong is like arguing with a Mack truck. The market is the market. If you take the long perspective the market almost always reflects the majority view - and hence "reality". I call this "feedback". You can go with it or get run over.

If you want the market to go a certain way, then it is up to you (whoever), the inspired individual, to develop the product that will enable custom shapers to still play a part, while meeting the stronger/lighter/tougher qualities of tuflites, and be competitive on price.

Surftech has taken a substantial risk to go against the conventional wisdom to bring us a product with such superior potential, and I think they deserve their competitive advantage at least for awhile.

Personally, I think the way forward is for SurfTech to licence their processes and take a smaller cut of an almost unlimited pie rather limit themselves to all of a very small one. With few changes the technology will sustain custom shaping, and if they don't do this soon, someone else will beat them to it. Well, I hope they would.

For what its worth, I think the major threat to local shapers is the $400 chinese polyester board, not tuflites.

[ric_vidal]

Hawkeye, Laurie and others are making some good valid comments here.

I read in a magazine some time ago Donald Takayama made a six figure income in one year alone from sales royalties for of his various Surftech models. Don't think he'd be complaining!

Also heard a McTavish model Suftech is doing well, but at the price of their traditional ones. As the person in the industry told me said, “you can't have it both ways”.

The process and materials they use are certainly not unique, but there is a VERY big difference in the cost of labour for those employed in Thailand.

The EPS foam epoxy combo is stiffer and lighter and, as 'Fish-Boy' pointed out, somewhat less forgiving.

I'm with Hawkeye though, it's the cheap imported traditionally made boards coming out of China, Taiwan and the like that pose a threat to the local market. This is not a reflection on the product, just another area where it is cheaper to manufacture overseas.

I know people who've already snapped Salamon 'blue' boards and there are plenty of Surftechs that have met the same fate, but neither manufacturer is claiming the boards to be indestructible.

In a sport where fractions of inches can make a pretty big difference, I think the custom market is here to stay. If you feel there is a stock Surftech/Salamon model that suits, then it is your perogative to buy.

You still hear inane comments though even for the Surftechs. I was down at Dripping Wet one day and here is a guy who is dead keen on a JC Surftech, didn't buy it because of the red/white (pink in the middle) fade from the rails. Almost pissed myself when I overheard.

Feedback I get from surfers I respect is fairly neutral about their performance.

I for one won't be riding one since I make boards and have a somewhat more ‘out of the square’ approach.

[philw]

won't there always be a market for old school or traditional designs? i can't see the point in a tuflite 70's style single fin or a tuflite noserider. sure they might work, but why would you bother? the point of riding those old styles is to ride them old style.

[bro]

LMG if you are using the people on this forum as a yardstick for your theory of 'good' surfers riding them, then step away from the computer. as a long time paricipant on these forums you should know that there is a very high percentage of kooks writing here, its pretty evident.

I do work in the industry and the guys buying these boards as Coll points out want durability and know very little else about design and how a board works so they think they get more bang for their buck because it lasts longer that is their no 1 buying feature, function is secondary.

Also, considering Surftech have just had a price increase again your supply and demand theory has flaws!

[ric_vidal]

Bro,

I suspect there is also a fair retail push for the Surftechs, not necessarily for the S-core at their prices though. Probably a pretty good retail margin.

Could be quite a few 'early adopters' as they say, new technology and all that gear. The crunch will be whether people will buy another one next time round.

Or maybe it's replaced what was the traditional market for the more uninitiated, and they would probably prefer something which is shiny, NEW and that also has some longevity.

Personally, I favour a board that works over one that is perhaps going to last X number of years.

It is such a cheap sport anyway, why would you be that concerned about how long a stick lasts?

[Beanpole]

Right on bro . For the uninitiated kooks=recreational surfers who don't share bongs with the local shaper.

[Hawkeye]

LMG if you are using the people on this forum as a yardstick for your theory of 'good' surfers riding them, then step away ...

If "kook" means not up to WCT/WQS standard, then I can't argue. But judging by the growing number of very competent recreational surfers in the water on them, I'd say they're gaining a foothold.

I do work in the industry and the guys buying these boards as Coll points out want durability and know very little else about design and how a board works so they think they get more bang for their buck because it lasts longer that is their no 1 buying feature, function is secondary.

I think you're being unduly harsh about buyers - maybe a little emotive?? Sound to me like it's meeting a market demand. Most of the guys I know on them are competent riders tired of breaking boards after a month or two. Not WCT standard, but still chargers. Neither they nor I will put up with boards that don't function.

Also, considering Surftech have just had a price increase again your supply and demand theory has flaws!

Actually, I'd say its supply and demand working just fine. Given that Byrnes sell out every container they bring in (and they order as many as they can get their hands on) I'd be putting up the price too.

There won't be a price drop unless demand wanes (like I can see that happening) or a competitor enters the market with equivalent or better performance and durability at a comparable price.

So listen to what the market is telling you. Quit your whingeing and use your Aussie ingenuity to compete and deliver what the customers want. You're starting to sound the proverbial planeload of poms.

[bro]

Hawkeye, I am speaking from personal observation and I don't have an issue with Surftechs at all but I guess I must be surfing at a different beach to you as most guys I see on them can barely manage a turn. I think your mates seem exactly as I pointed out wanting durability, not sure whose boards you have been riding but myself and most people I know don't have any issues with the quality of polyester boards off reputable shapers.

Each to their own and if it makes you surf more then great for you but bad for the rest of us as more people in the water ;-)

[tootr]

some swaylocks scuttlebutt - in east coast US there is a chain shop owner who ships various well known /popular models to china and has them copied, with labels from old 60's and 70's companies gone bust and resurrected on them. apparently they are getting very good at making close copies

that is very scary - and thats the sort of thing that will send manufacturers bust - not plastic boards.

[collnarra]

There's another story floating around about an ex-pro who bought several container loads of standard foam boards from China. He was stuck with them for ages, because no surf shops would touch them.

I've only ever heard this, never confirmed it. But it makes a good story.

C+O+L

[Dicco]

Its interesting to see some guys describe Surtech, Salomon and Bic boards as 'Pop Outs ' but refer to well known brand boards by other terms. Like all the of the rack boards are really 'Pop Outs" as well arent they ? Like they are shaped en mass by either machine or hand, then glassed in bulk and sold to surf shops .They are replicas of what some one thinks will work (or sell ) for Joe Surfer so whats the difference ?These are just "Pop Outs' , made by traditional methods. WIthout commenting on vitues or otherwise of surftech, Salomon etc I ask why label these with the word "Pop Out" ? Unless you had your board shaped for you, arent you riding jut another "Pop Out" ?
Dicco

[Hawkeye]

Hawkeye, I am speaking from personal observation and I don't have an issue with Surftechs at all but I guess I must be surfing at a different beach to you as most guys I see on them can barely manage a turn.

Mostly NN Alley, but also DY point and clubhouse bank when they work and NN is monster mush, plus North Curly and occasionally Long Reef bombie when the swell is dead south and missing the beach breaks.

The guys I've seen on them at these locations are mostly older like me. They've been around the circuit a few times, are sceptics, can surf competently, and don't particularly care about whether they're fashionable or not. They're more interested in what does the job. They're not short of buck, and they didn't get that way by throwing their hard-earned away on stuff that breaks easily.

Look, I agree there are lots of people riding them who surf poorly. But I've seen old guys in their seventies with hairpieces driving late model Ferraris too.

I still like Ferraris.

[bro]

Ther term 'pop out' refers that the board 'popped' out of a mold so no traditional boards are not pop outs as no two are identical, unlike molded boards which are

Nice analogy Hawkeye, I think the older guy likes the fact he can ride a shorter board due to the bouyancy factor which allows better paddling etc
however, I still don't think they perform as well as a traditional board in my opinion but each to their own

and the guys in Ferrari's look like tools ;p

[Beanpole]

All surfboards are plastic. Conventional surfboards breakdown when they are constantly exposed to ultraviolet light and heat. If you painted your stick it would last longer
With all the computer shaped product out there its a bit like an Andy Warhol original of 100 soupcans
Hand signed at least.

[smw1]

Bro, I may be wrong, but I think the point Dicco was making was a metaphorical one. It's the difference between mass production for mass market, and custom shaping for an individual.

How many of the most popular designs from big name shapers are shaped and finished by the shaper themselves? My understanding is that ghost shapers or machines do most of the work on the blanks so that enough boards can be produced to satisfy demand and so there is a viable business model for anyone wanting to sell a lot of boards.

If so, that's beginning to sound more and more like the automated process a lot of people dislike about tuf-lites.

SMW1

[Dicco]

Right On SMW 1 !
You got my point exactly ! Why deride Surftech or anyone else's brand thats like surftech when so many of the well known brand boards are mass produced replicas of a prototype shape.That shape was probably a great performer, but its been replicated hundreds, if not thousands of times so its just a mass produced board like Surftech, Bic, soft tops etc
If anyone says that all of these mass produced conventional boards are made here in Oz they might go blind - many well known brands bring in boards from Asia - perfect replicas of their replicas and mix these in with their oz made stock .Yu cant tell the difference till yu ding one ..
Dicco

[Beanpole]

If you take a mal by Donald Takayama as an example. You can buy a surftech certified as an exact copy by Donald or a board ghost shaped at Byron Industrial Estate to his specs. Which is going to be closer to the original