Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

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pirate_agenda
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Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:39 am

I mentioned in the backyarderz thread that I had picked up some polyethylene non woven material among other and planned on some testing - well here is the results.

Method - I glassed 5 samples of VH density EPS with differing materials, all were glasses from the same batch of Kinetics fast epoxy, and not vacuum bagged.

Sample 1 - 2 x 4 oz E glass

Sample 2 - 1 x 2oz innegra, 1 x 4 oz S-Glass

Sample 3 - 1 x 2 oz innegra, 1 x 4oz quad axel, 1 x 4oz E glass

Sample 4 - 1 x Non woven, 1 x 2oz innegra, 1 x 4 oz S glass

Sample 5 - 1 x non woven, 1 x 2oz innegra, 1 x nylon mesh, 1 x 4oz S glass

Once cure the samples were subject to 3 tests, the thumb press test, the heel dent test where i stand on the sample with my heel (tech stuff this), and dropping a 12 inch, 350g steel rod from 1.2m test.

Results:
Thumb test:
Sample 2 performed the worst and dented pretty easily. Sample 5 and 3 were equally the best and could not dent with my thumb. Sample 1 and 4 could be dented but not badly.

Heel dent test
Samples 5 and 3 again were the best - all others were dented significantly, while 5 and 3 were not. There was a big difference between the denting in sample 4 and sample 2, sample 4 being much less damaged.

Steel Rod drop test.
The only sample to punture was sample 1 - all others bounced off.
Sample 3 was the best with the smallest dent, next best was sample 5, then sample 4 then sample 2.

I not the difference between sample 2 and 4 is quite noticable.

My conclusions (take with a grain of salt and use how you like):
- Sample 3 which had non wove, innegra and 8oz of glass was the most resilient
- Sample 5 which only contained 4oz of glass and a nylon mesh was only marginally less resilient than sample 3, for i suspect less weight.
- The non woven fabric did have an effect on improving dent resistance
- Innegra clearly works to prevent punctures.

<:

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ric_vidal
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by ric_vidal » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:06 pm

p_a, have you ever seen a Coil Industries board? http://www.coilsurf.com/page11/page11.html

Bit of different tech in their boards, they don't give too much away though.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:45 pm

ric_vidal wrote:p_a, have you ever seen a Coil Industries board? http://www.coilsurf.com/page11/page11.html

Bit of different tech in their boards, they don't give too much away though.
yeah i have - i'm guessing they are some kind of mix of the above with some other secret sauce mixed in!

most of my materials experimenting is taking leads from feral dave's dynocore hints and tips here and there. not sure how close i am, i suspect a little bit off!

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huie
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by huie » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:59 pm

ric_vidal wrote:p_a, have you ever seen a Coil Industries board? http://www.coilsurf.com/page11/page11.html

Bit of different tech in their boards, they don't give too much away though.
hey de ho ric''
havnt been over here for a while how are you going?

i see a few boys been playing''

yes i keep in regular contact with mike ( coil)

we wont get that fabric here for a loooooong time
coil construction will never be copyed by guess work but baging different fabrics is growing
and its good to see people try.

pirate there is a whole lot more to it than making a few test peices and hitting it
put it in the boards and you will soon start geting the gist many boards many tests much money
and the crew couldnt give a fuck.

polyethelene as a skin nahh the ineggra is good for impact but to dear this is where nylon comes in it does the same job. and then you needthe right one most are needle punched

n fusion diamond cut is the one it can be from .7 1oz 2oz and 3 oz two 3 oz are over kill i have plenty

cork by core cork n l 10 best for raw deck this should be applied with epoxy as the small holes in the cork form a labrynth to secure it to the deck under vacum and if or when it wears out it can all be sanded off and recoated ''..........one shot in the bag your drawing to much resin out
no garuntee the vac has not pulled pin air which means the fucker will take water and give the cork a bad name i talk to drew about this many times and he confirms this and he is doing all lost cork boards so fellas thats my rant might see ya next yr keep up the good work


cheers huie

pirate_agenda
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:01 pm

huie wrote:
ric_vidal wrote:p_a, have you ever seen a Coil Industries board? http://www.coilsurf.com/page11/page11.html

Bit of different tech in their boards, they don't give too much away though.
hey de ho ric''
havnt been over here for a while how are you going?

i see a few boys been playing''

yes i keep in regular contact with mike ( coil)

we wont get that fabric here for a loooooong time
coil construction will never be copyed by guess work but baging different fabrics is growing
and its good to see people try.

pirate there is a whole lot more to it than making a few test peices and hitting it
put it in the boards and you will soon start geting the gist many boards many tests much money
and the crew couldnt give a ****.

polyethelene as a skin nahh the ineggra is good for impact but to dear this is where nylon comes in it does the same job. and then you needthe right one most are needle punched

n fusion diamond cut is the one it can be from .7 1oz 2oz and 3 oz two 3 oz are over kill i have plenty

cork by core cork n l 10 best for raw deck this should be applied with epoxy as the small holes in the cork form a labrynth to secure it to the deck under vacum and if or when it wears out it can all be sanded off and recoated ''..........one shot in the bag your drawing to much resin out
no garuntee the vac has not pulled pin air which means the **** will take water and give the cork a bad name i talk to drew about this many times and he confirms this and he is doing all lost cork boards so fellas thats my rant might see ya next yr keep up the good work


cheers huie
for sure huie - understand there is much much much more than a couple of primitive tests to sort this stuff - the small tests just help me justify what my next trial on a board will be!

You liking the NL10 better for decks? i was reading the opposite somewhere, i've only used NL10 so far though and really like it - maybe i'll stick with nl10.

by the way, where do you source your n-fusion, i got a sample sent from USA, but the shipping is too exxy to buy regularly?

Thanks for chiming in huie - always good to hear your experience with these materials.

Cheers

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ric_vidal
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by ric_vidal » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:58 am

huie wrote: hey de ho ric''
havnt been over here for a while how are you going?
Good to see the master drop by. Mate, I'm OK, still pretending… :-?

Haven't touched a board for a long while, too long. In the throws of a new one, low tech by your standards. We'll see how she travels.

Think you are right about most punters not giving a flying f*ck, but that is not the motivation.

Let's not wait another year!

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ric_vidal
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by ric_vidal » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:09 am

Matticus Finch wrote:[
Saw these photos the other day Ric, not sure if this will work.
That's the beasts… one's I saw appeared different, those images look simply like just carbon which I can guarantee the aren't.

The ones I had my grubby hands on 'appeared' to have a super fine woven cloth LIKE that used in some of the digital decals and it didn't seem to be transparent. EPS core for sure, probably a VH density. Some of the other stuff looked more graphic than functional, but what the f*ck do I know.

pirate_agenda
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:37 pm

huie wrote: cork by core cork n l 10 best for raw deck this should be applied with epoxy as the small holes in the cork form a labrynth to secure it to the deck under vacum and if or when it wears out it can all be sanded off and recoated ''..........one shot in the bag your drawing to much resin out
no garuntee the vac has not pulled pin air which means the **** will take water and give the cork a bad name i talk to drew about this many times and he confirms this and he is doing all lost cork boards so fellas thats my rant might see ya next yr keep up the good work


cheers huie
yo huie,

when you do your cork deck do you do all of the lam fabrics in 1 shot, and then the cork separately. or do you do some of the lam materials first, and then the final lam material and cork together in the 2nd shot?

Also, the foam i am using is closed cell and doesn't take on water - pin holes shouldn't matter anyway in that case right? don't the xtr guys have little pinholes on the deck on purpose for venting?

Cheers

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by ric_vidal » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 am

pirate_agenda wrote: Also, the foam i am using is closed cell and doesn't take on water - pin holes shouldn't matter anyway in that case right? don't the xtr guys have little pinholes on the deck on purpose for venting?
p-a, Rich (Pure) and I used to do pretty much all of the early glassing of the XTRs in Australia. The rail heat punching was done back at Rhino. Not a pleasant experience working with the XTR foam and epoxy formulation and the US stringer material was diabolical for splitting when routing stinking Future's boxes. Some of the early finish shaping was pretty awful too until they got their heads around the 'grain' of the foam.

Still seems to defy some logic to release pressure on something that is meant to be closed cells or am I missing something?

Did a board myself out of another extruded polystyrene (XPS), the foam distorted badly when overheated. Best avoided if you ask me.

pirate_agenda
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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:01 pm

ric_vidal wrote:
pirate_agenda wrote: Also, the foam i am using is closed cell and doesn't take on water - pin holes shouldn't matter anyway in that case right? don't the xtr guys have little pinholes on the deck on purpose for venting?
p-a, Rich (Pure) and I used to do pretty much all of the early glassing of the XTRs in Australia. The rail heat punching was done back at Rhino. Not a pleasant experience working with the XTR foam and epoxy formulation and the US stringer material was diabolical for splitting when routing stinking Future's boxes. Some of the early finish shaping was pretty awful too until they got their heads around the 'grain' of the foam.

Still seems to defy some logic to release pressure on something that is meant to be closed cells or am I missing something?

Did a board myself out of another extruded polystyrene (XPS), the foam distorted badly when overheated. Best avoided if you ask me.
ahh, i dont know much about XTR at all - I was just under the impression that they had holes on it for venting, and not a valve as it didn't matter that the foam was getting wet because it was watertight?? i could be way off!

i'm using a closed cell eps, not XPS for the record.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by ric_vidal » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:26 am

Isn't all EPS 'closed cell'?

The cell is not the problem, it's the space between them. To my understanding, Surftech developed and now use a 'fused' EPS foam meaning no ingress of water if they are damaged.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:45 pm

ric_vidal wrote:Isn't all EPS 'closed cell'?

The cell is not the problem, it's the space between them. To my understanding, Surftech developed and now use a 'fused' EPS foam meaning no ingress of water if they are damaged.
sorry - fused is the stuff!! ha

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:15 am

wingnut2443 wrote:
Good Stuff Pirate ... keep us posted.

If you want, I'm happy to throw a hundred bucks your way so you can use it for materials and testing. Makes sense if you have the time and set up to test and play, that for me, I help fund to get some R&D ... no sense duplicating efforts and costs.

All you need to do then is share your results ...

We may even be able to find a material sponsor :wink:
Ha, thanks for the offer mate - but i'm just playing! got a few personal boards finishing now with some different layups - be interested to see how they perform / hold up.

on another note - i creased my original cork/innegra board during the big swell last week. copped a lip from a rogue 8ft + set and came up with a crease. To be fair i'm sure a regular PU/PE would have been in 2 pieces in the same situation. Anyway after stripping back the cork the damage was cracks on the rails where there is no innegra lapped, and all of the glass where innegra is has stayed intact, and the foam is not fractured. Thinking if there was a better bond between foam and innegra (in the form of non woven nylon) it would've held up even better.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by alakaboo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:38 am

Pirate, I ride a few boards with materials you're playing with.
I know you've already read this, but maybe have another look. Innegra has been pretty much cast aside.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/new-bu ... ing?page=2
The tone might be a bit tetchy, but there is gold in there...the repaired board is mine.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by pirate_agenda » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:01 pm

alakaboo wrote:Pirate, I ride a few boards with materials you're playing with.
I know you've already read this, but maybe have another look. Innegra has been pretty much cast aside.

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/new-bu ... ing?page=2
The tone might be a bit tetchy, but there is gold in there...the repaired board is mine.
i know that a few people have swapped innegra for N-fusion for strength / dent resistance. innegra doesn't do much against dents in my trials so far, but it does make the board stronger and also helps to dampen the chattery ride associated with eps. if i was bagging the bottom with cork also i would skip the innegra, but i think it works well with the cork deck dampening and flex wise, and bulks up the lam without adding stiffness to the board.

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Re: Alternative materials testing results - backyard style

Post by alakaboo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:10 pm

You lost me.
I don't build them, got bugger all idea about the materials except ride reports.

Innegra and cork go well together.

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