how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

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mah
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by mah » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:41 pm

i know ill buid a house or sell one ill have some spare cash ill buy a container of boards from where ever manage to sell half for the chrissy rush ill kill it . Later. summers gone half a container left ill dump em on ebay or any shop consignment happy to get 200 aboard ye fuckin ha

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by seethesea75 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:30 am

Yep Mah hit it on the head.

This is what happens. Problem is when he reflects on the margins for his $20K up front plus import costs for the container he works out he would have been better off using his $20K for something else. Heaps of these guys have come and gone. A lot of the retailers like Sideways etc come and go as well, anyone want a bet on how long this bargain retailer sticks around??

This is a great thread once again. Mulloway, $299 for a board is super cheap. Below cost in Australia. I have a fair idea of board prices from China and import costs also and at that price there's nothing in it for the importer either. These guys come and go, like the example above it's just not viable.

The point of my posts is just that Aussie manufacturers need to take their head out of the sand and realise that the cheap imports are not the real issue, it's a great excuse to sit and do nothing waiting for the end of the world but in volume terms the bigger players are doing way more than these bargain guys and selling for more $ than Aussie guys.

Solutions exist and it's time for ASCIA the Manufacturers Association to start its work to assist, educate and promote Aussie manufacturers before it's too late.

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Natho » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:59 pm

Cheap Asian Imports?
Cheap backyard shapes undercutting other shapers openly on these forums.
Promoting yourself for free at every chance you get in neraly every thread posted on these forums.
Pot calling kettle black.

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by diggerdickson » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:46 pm

Hey natho, how do you determine cheap backyard shapers, maybe Im ignorant. when is a backyard shaper a backyard shaper, would you determine its someone who only shapes for himself and his family plus one or two close friends, or would you consider it a person who shapes a few boards a week and sells them under cost of other brands that are around them. What volume of boards that are being sold moves a backyarder to a shaper with a showroom. What if a backyarder doesnt actually sell his boards, but makes them for the pure joy and passes them to one or two friends at cost so he can make another one. Where do you draw the line in the sand.

I must be ignorant here, and if so forgive me
no, Im not a surfer, Im just a garbage man".

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Natho » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:57 pm

Well my post wasn't exactly a dig at 'backyard' shapers in general,but if you must ask I think description # 2 would be what im referring to.

More Im just pointing out that some who are cying out over cheap imports are more than happy to undercut other shapers openly on these forums. The exact example that comes to mind is when one realsurfer commented that they were going to purchase a board from one well known big name shaper. Person in mind was quick to pop up on these forums and suggest that they could shape a board for the person much cheaper than the big name shaper. Same person is now crying out over cheap imports.

My post was referring to that exact example, not backyard shapers in general.

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by diggerdickson » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:47 pm

I know it wasnt a dig natho, its just how do you define a backyard shaper that I find interesting, and to define when you move from a so called backyard shaper to not being a backyard shaper.

For me a backyard shaper is someone not really aiming at making a living but selling a few a week to his local neighbourhood, undercutting the local board producers in his area to the possible detriment of the community in the end

Then the hobby bloke, someone who loves the idea of making boards for family, one or two friends only, and does it for recreational purposes and something he can share with friends and family.

Then the china popouts, flood the market, cheap price, a decent surfer could ride anything well so why not when the cost of living is so bloody high, I can understand this cause im struggling to pay my rent let alone save money for a decent blank and glass to do some shaping ideas.

All this the local community board maker has to compete against. No wonder the backyard shaper and hobbyist is absolutely hated. I fully understand, but it is just a shame that many dont deserve to get abused. I feel embarresed with what happened to fong when he was trying to help me out, really embarrased, I may have laughed it off, but I do understand, damn shame.

Which brings it all back to the original question, how long till there wont be a local board business anymore, I think of yorky just opening here up the road, he has a great set up, does the local area but also has a broader outlook than just his community, I think a guy like him will survive where others wont, someone who can look outside his strip of beaches and reach further, but how do you do that, that is the question, is it pure luck or hard work, because please dont tell me that local board makers dont work hard.
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Morgan The Moon
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Morgan The Moon » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:42 am

Natho wrote:Cheap Asian Imports?
Cheap backyard shapes undercutting other shapers openly on these forums.
Promoting yourself for free at every chance you get in neraly every thread posted on these forums.
Pot calling kettle black.
That's a harsh call. I'm assuming you're talking Pridmore?

Yup, he pushes his boards, but he also shares alot more than that on these forums.

Mark seems pretty savvy to me, using new media effectively and going grass roots with his travel board.

I'd say that Mark is adapting to the times - modelling the kind of behaviour that seethesea was suggesting.

He believes in his product and stands behind it. He's also a filthy man grommet. I like to see folk sharing their passion, and this man's livelihood depends upon it.

BTW - never been a MORE customer, never borrowed his travel board

mah
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by mah » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:57 pm

cmon it cost$480 to build a 6ft board plain white /fcs/spray finnished using 1st quality materials /rent/electricty/water/public liabilty/product liability and everything else that goes along with running a factory and dont forget the gst payable on the sale .hell u make more on selling a grip .u cant discount ur actual costs ; everyone just needs to charge the right price back yard or factoy or china

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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by simplesimon » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Morgan if you read nathos explanation on his comment further down then based on that I would say his comment was fairly valid. Not sure who he was talking about and I guess he has chosen not to name them. Your just assuming. All that said if you had to choose between an Asian import taking business from another shaper and a local person, then you would probably rather that the money at least stays in Australia.

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Cpt.Caveman
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:56 pm

Thats true. At the end of the day its all simple business. A surfboard manufacturer is a small business like any other and needs to make decisions based on what they think will keep that business thriving the best. I'm a small business owner myself, so I totally understand why people make these decisions.

If your product still has some human soul to it, in that you really are connecting with the customer on some level and offering something of value and connect with the customer on some level, then the product is more than just for money. In terms of pricing, sourcing materials and labor, etc. You just have to make the best decision you can to make ends meat.

Making a successful small business thrive is not an easy thing to do and takes a lot of planning and deliberate thought, and when it doesn't work out people suffer in some way or another.

My opinion is, don't whinge about people's business choices, whinge if they are selling you snake-oil and giving you something other than you were expecting, or for an exorbitant price as well. Thats when a business loses its soul and stops being about connecting with people, and only exists for cold hard profits.

The rest is grey area and grey matter.
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Morgan The Moon
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Morgan The Moon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:05 am

simplesimon wrote:Morgan if you read nathos explanation on his comment further down then based on that I would say his comment was fairly valid. Not sure who he was talking about and I guess he has chosen not to name them. Your just assuming. All that said if you had to choose between an Asian import taking business from another shaper and a local person, then you would probably rather that the money at least stays in Australia.
Yup, I was assuming. And you're right in this case, I'd rather give the business to someone local. I believe in supporting the craftsmen, cos I don't want to lose them and find myself unable to get what I want in 20 years time cos there's no-one around to do it anymore.

Capt - Well put.

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kayu
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by kayu » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:09 am

....Far as I can see , most of the complaining started post '08 (GFC)....before that most board builders I know were busy as....and mostly exporting...and maybe neglecting the domestic market too much , because the big $$$ was in export.....I've never felt that Asian countries were to blame for the current situation , its allways been the Aussie manufacturers who source the asian made boards. Many are sellin out and will be remembered as sell-outs in the future , which is a shame . It seems respect comes a poor second to $$$$$'s. .......the machine has also produced a new breed of "backyarder ". These guys don't glass , don't design and if were confronted with a raw blank, minus their stolen templates and design files , would not know which end was the tail.........however , there is light...there's a welcome revival of custom small operators , producing great boards, selling them direct and thats something that can never be taken away........ 8)

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huie
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by huie » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:47 pm

kayu wrote:....Far as I can see , most of the complaining started post '08 (GFC)....before that most board builders I know were busy as....and mostly exporting...and maybe neglecting the domestic market too much , because the big $$$ was in export.....I've never felt that Asian countries were to blame for the current situation , its allways been the Aussie manufacturers who source the asian made boards. Many are sellin out and will be remembered as sell-outs in the future , which is a shame . It seems respect comes a poor second to $$$$$'s. .......the machine has also produced a new breed of "backyarder ". These guys don't glass , don't design and if were confronted with a raw blank, minus their stolen templates and design files , would not know which end was the tail.........however , there is light...there's a welcome revival of custom small operators , producing great boards, selling them direct and thats something that can never be taken away........ 8)


i agree the thumb drive jokeys are no more than snake oil salesman


cheers huie

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kayu
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by kayu » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:28 pm

:lol: :lol:

mustkillmulloway
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by mustkillmulloway » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:05 pm

oh well....on the bright side at least the surfboard makers do it cause they love it :arrow:

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/st ... -dentists/

anyone enjoys playin with teeth is a sico imo...

shame see them go broke tho....they might have wanted buy a local made board :idea:

tell me again government,,,,,why this new global eCommerce is so good for everyone :roll:
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kayu
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by kayu » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:37 pm

One thing thats been slowly balancing out since '08 is a large drop in retail sales. There's never been a retail component in the pricing of surfboards. Boards were built out the back, and sold in the front. One shed , one rent, usually away from the major retails hubs where the rent was affordable. Magic places they were too!That smell of resin was so addictive....a grommets heaven. The concept of boards on "consignment" to a large shop in the main street of town or the local mall is fundamentally an unworkable equation for a boardmaker.....you buy materials, pay rent, pay shapers- glassers -finish coaters-polishers-taxes and other sundry overheads , then give it to a shop for free, in the hope that someones buys it before you go broke.....its pretty clear IMO , that we need to turn back the clock...and that will only happen when we all fully realise how much we really have lost over the years :cry:

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Cuttlefish
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by Cuttlefish » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:51 pm

I posted this on the Base collapse thread but it has some relevance to this discussion so forgive the cut and paste:
The thing about building surfboards for a living is that it appears to be the least profitable facet of the surfing industry.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
My assumption is that the producers of the accessories - wetsuits, boardshorts, clothing, and so on and so on are where the money can be made.
They can evade the locally made/foreign made conundrum because they are accessories and looked on in a different light to surfboards.
Not so the surfboard industry where the shaping machine vs hand shape debate still goes on.
Then of course there's the locally made vs Asian made debate.
The recent articles on Swellnet about the Base collapse were followed by an interview with the CEO of GSI who didn't miss a chance to point out how successful the GSI surfboard venture is.
The critical thing about his business model is that GSI simply buy blanks, glass, resin and so on in bulk and have locally owned and staffed Thai, Chinese and Taiwanese factories build boards for them.
So they save on setting up factories and running them with no ties to the workers who build their boards whatsoever.
The actual GSI employees in the countries they sell the boards in (all 22 of them) work out of home.
So effectively a board made for GSI (or any of it's blank, glass or resin) will most likely never be touched from anyone from GSI from start of production to when it hits a surfshop floor.
In effect they've held up a business model which may as well be producing bath towels, a blender or TV sets.
Have to wonder if they even fund any of the r&d that the shaper put into making the boards for the computer files they use?
Good question because Kelly didn't mind aiming backhanders at the backyard board builders.
So for a local board builder who wants to maintain their own board production and make some better money while staying independent, why not use their name to produce the best boards they can locally and also offer a line of their own boardies, boardbags, deck grip, fins and so on which can be sourced from OS suppliers and branded accordingly?
Use some marketing to branch out with more than just surfboards.
If virtually all the accessories are already made OS the surfing public aren't going to tag them as a sell out because the rest of the accessories producers already went offshore anyway.
Then they get better margins for the accessories and they can sell them through the internet as well.
Not too difficult to run a internet shop as a sideline.
Just a thought..... idiot
Edit: After a nights sleep I've come back to this concept to throw ridicule on it myself.
What was I thinking?
:shock:
Last edited by Cuttlefish on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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kayu
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Re: how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

Post by kayu » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:15 pm

There is still a clothing manufacturer left on the Gold Coast - still employs the girls to do the sewing and still works,together with his wife, to get things done , and fits a few waves in when its good !.... :shock:

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