Glassing Carbon Rails

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Kunho5
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Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:38 am

Gday just wondering if anyone has experience with glassing carbon rails.

Should they be done with epoxy? My guess is yep.

Do they go straight on top of the blank and then do the full cloth lam over the rails?

OR........... can the carbon go on top of the first lam and just before the sand coat?

I have heard of people using spray glue to hold them in place till they are glassed?

I have looked at swaylocks extensively but it seems that I cant find the answer.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers. :?

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ric_vidal
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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by ric_vidal » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:18 am

Kunho5 wrote: OR........... can the carbon go on top of the first lam and just before the sand coat?
One of the guys I work with did some time with Hayden Shapes, he explained it to me and nothing special but perhaps tedious. Lay it on and glass over. How you hold it in position I’m not sure, but working with epoxy gives you a fair bit of time.

So yes best to use epoxy to get the maximum value out of your carbon.

The glass OVER is important, you don’t want to be sanding the carbon.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by pridmore » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:04 am

epoxy or dont bother...I ored in a factory where we did 100's of carbon with normal resin and it did nothing to add strength, just looked high tech, we realized after a while ( this was late 80's ) but people still wanted the carbon cloth....we did a few epoxy version with great results, even without stringers.... there is a spray-on adhesive that holds the carbon on the rails, cant remeber the name...

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:53 pm

Thanks for the tips that gives me something to think about.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:33 pm

Gday how much glass do you guys think is necessary for carbon rails?

I am building a 9 footer ( 22 1/2 by 3 ) I was thinking 6 + 6 top and 4+4 bottom with carbon or is this too heavy?

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by pridmore » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:43 pm

that will be a strong and heavy board...that much cloth as well as carbon and a stringer kinda defeats some of the main reasons carbon is used...usually used to add strength to prevent breaking but usually combined with lightweight glassing and or foams. ( and to alter flex )..but if it is a heavy log that you want to last forever, then that much cloth is gunna do that, or if you wanted to make a more high performance 9fter, maybe try 1 x 4 bottom ( could use 6 but with carbon, I wouldnt ) and maybe 1x 4 and 1 x 6 deck ( but could easily go 2 x 4 oz deck )....

I have a new 5'11" stringerless and its 1 x 4 bottom and 1 x 6 deck with carbon rails, PU blank,
also have a 8'8" longboard and did it 1 x 4 bottom, 2 x 4 deck ( but thats with no carbon and stringered blank ) and both holding up very well...good curing definitely helps..as well other things....
just my opinion, you do what you want, it is your board and you are the one who'll be riding it....and carrying the heavy beast.... :roll: 8) 8)

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:15 am

Yea I dont want it to be too heavy so I am glad I asked. I should cut back the cloth in that case.

Thanks for getting back to me.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by ric_vidal » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:18 am

Wouldn’t waste your time or money on carbon rails... too brittle and as Mark said more for different results, and as stated previously needs EPOXY to get the value out of it.

Want a board slightly lighter but strong enough to resist snapping then try 2 x 4 deck and2 x 4 bottom but don’t zipper cut the intermediate layer. Go for a blank with a relatively narrow stringer. It will give you good strong rails where it counts the most and still flex well. Been riding mine for 4 years without problems. Deck will still compress, but then I have seen a few 2 x 6 decks of late that are very ordinary.

I wouldn’t recommend much lighter unless you have deep pockets.

All depends on what you are trying to achieve and how you choose to ride.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by ric_vidal » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:10 pm

saltman wrote:More economical way to get strength than carbon ...........maybe deck channels?
True Saltman, just got to get some sucker to shape, glass and sand them. Done it for myself and it is fiddly. Guess it depends what value you put on time.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by gibber » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:19 pm

To answer the question on how to hold carbon in place during laminating;
you can use a spray adhesive from 3M called "Super 77". You will need to get the clear one (if its still available as colour is used to identify where it is when used in infusion-a lam method for resin transfer moulding). Its poly/vinyl/epoxy compatible so is perfect for use in all applications.
Also another good way to get a great carbon weave pattern finish is to buy "weave set" cloth as this has a coating that keeps the weave set for laminating. The coating breaks down when wet and doesn't reduce too much of the strength/stiffness properties. If Weave Set is not available (or is too expensive) ordinary hair spray does a pretty decent job of keeping the weave in shape and doesn't seem to cause any contamination issues with resin.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by pridmore » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:27 pm

been doin a carbon-epoxy board and all was going well til we got these bloody freezing cold days, not helping with filler coats setting any quicker.....it'll be finished in a few days and will post some pics....threw in some tint to hide the yellowing effect, looks ok too.... 8)

3M spray, thats it....

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:13 pm

Hey
I have been doing a lot of homework. Only board Ive located similar to what I am after is the new Walden carbon 9 footer. Looks great check it out on the net.

I have the 3m 77 and the epoxy resin. The blank is shaped and on the stand. The cold weather is really a worry though I just cant get that incease of 10 degrees in my workspace so I am working on it. What a bitch.

Why carbon? I guess it does look great on a plain white board and yes you probably can get by without it too. I have a longboard that is pu and painted and it needs reparing all the time. I am thinking that epoxy carbon will be a performance job that will be a keeper to last a long time.

I think surftech is epoxy and pu sand coat. I am aiming to do epoxy and epoxy sand coat no gloss. Plain white. Strong a light.

Thanks for all the comments some helpful advice there for sure.

regards.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by dUg » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:21 pm

Hmmm... I already revealed my great success with carbon rails over in the "Carbo-Rail-Epoxy-Kevlar-Flyer" thread. :oops:

Kunho5... if you're going plain white have you considered using a tint in the resin? I know some people don't like the flat white "plasticcy" look you get, but it gives you a nice uniform finish... and hides a myriad of sins. :)

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by Kunho5 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:22 pm

Hey

That does seem like a good option. I have some white pigment. I am only planning on doing a sand coat and leaving it there. Maybe I can add some white?

They say its ok to add a little pigment to epoxy?? :?

I have done the lam it came out ok but the cold weather is a bitch. Had the heaters going for hours.

regards

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by dUg » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:46 pm

Yep... works fine - just check % specified on the label. Also worth mixing a small test batch if you haven't used that combo of resin / pigment before, and applying it to some cloth placed on a foam offcut. Can save you a lot of heartache!

I recently used the West Systems pigment + R105 Resin + H206 Hardener and it was pretty good.

http://www.westsystem.com.au/west_syste ... 2_pigments

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by munch » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:42 pm

Go the BEARS!
Last edited by munch on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If it's well engineered it's beautiful .

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by dUg » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:18 pm

Munch what prep do you do on the epoxy prior to a polyester sand coat? After the last epoxy nightmare I'm seriously considering this approach... but I don't want to create an even bigger balls-up.

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Re: Glassing Carbon Rails

Post by feraldave » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:47 pm

Any one know the effects of UV on carbon.. And how long it's going to retain it's properties for in the sunlight?

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