A Question Of Science

[lessormore]

With the board industry being as large as it is, has board design been tested by science, as in wave tank/ wind tunnel/ computer simulation to collate info on what makes a board get from A to B in the shortest amount of time with maximum maneuverability?
What is the perfect fin/rail/concave/tailshape?
In any other industry large amounts of money is spent on this , but is the board industry too fragmented, with thousands of small/medium operators relying on knowledge from experience or surfer/ shaper relationships or experimentation?
Im sure the GSIs/ Surftech etc have the dollars to do this , but are they just giving what they think will sell to the masses, ie- Kelly rips on this board so you should too, or is the 7S Superfish the result of R & D ?
With thousands of different combinations of the above to suit different surfers on different types of waves, the question I'm asking is more to do with the material/ fin shape/number of fins etc for optimum movement through the water to answer questions like" Why do people say a quad goes faster than a thruster?"
Any thoughts?

[Cpt.Caveman]

I'd think that it would be hard to test, as the forces put on a surfboard can be so different when taking into account where it is on the wave, how the rider is using his/her weight, what speed the board is going, how big and powerful the wave is...

Lots to consider and complicated to reproduce in a lab.

Do any of the more engineering minded people here know whether it can be done??

[mical]

With the board industry being as large as it is, has board design been tested by science, as in wave tank/ wind tunnel/ computer simulation to collate info on what makes a board get from A to B in the shortest amount of time with maximum maneuverability?
What is the perfect fin/rail/concave/tailshape?

Some guys use hydrodynamic and standing wave tank testing etc ... others call it bullsh!t.

This guy wrote a thesis on surfboard hydrodynamics using simulated standing waves and has even included video of his tests. Not sure how good it is though :?

I know Cheyne Horan worked with Ben Lexcen using similar methods to come up with his Starfin.

[pridmore]

yeah and the starfin is the worst fin I have ever tried....there would be some science that may be helpful but sooo many variables and personal prefernces and opinions it kinda goes out the window IMO...half the fun is learning what works for ya and trying diff stuff....what is the perfect rail one surf, is shithouse the next, same with fins, tail shapes, bottom contours, rockers etc etc.... list goes on and on....science is better suited to the materials and construction IMO, let the surfers and designers test the shapes in the surf, not tanks and tunnells.....

[PeepeelaPew]

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[black duck]

yeah and the starfin is the worst fin I have ever tried....there would be some science that may be helpful but sooo many variables and personal prefernces and opinions it kinda goes out the window IMO...half the fun is learning what works for ya and trying diff stuff....what is the perfect rail one surf, is shithouse the next, same with fins, tail shapes, bottom contours, rockers etc etc.... list goes on and on....science is better suited to the materials and construction IMO, let the surfers and designers test the shapes in the surf, not tanks and tunnells.....

I think that was the same story with the H2 Hydro fins. Lab tested and engineered, wave tank tested to create a fin with minimal drag, then given to surfers to test (I think Tom Carroll may have been one of the testers?). Too loose in "real" testing and didn't work for the surfers. Had to be redesigned/tweaked to introduce some resistance and bite.

[pridmore]

yeah...but they do go well in certain boards, when I wanna loosen up a board in beachies by a surfer who is too far forward, they go well, they allow additional pivot but not drawn out arcs.....but I know what ya mean.....good for staying at the tail and flicking a board rather than using the rail and carving around....bla bla bla...

[lessormore]

Here's one example- I know dimples have been tried on fins and board bottoms but have different textured materials been tried, as seen here, with a seemingly rough surface to touch purportedly offering less resistance between the surface and water-

Shark Skin
Date:2007-10-9
Shark skin is very rough, in fact so rough that dried shark skin can be used as sanding paper.
The skin is covered by little V-shaped bumps, made from the same material as sharks' teeth.
The rough surface has been shown to reduce friction when the shark glides through water, which is why sharks are surprisingly quick and efficient swimmers.

2007930163039942.jpg (18.67 KiB) Viewed 2779 times

Fabrics modelled on sharkskin designed to reduce drag by channelling the water along grooves
in the fabric. These grooves allow the water to spiral in microscopic vortices, a hydrodynamic
advantage.
After looking at shark skin, NASA pioneered the use of longitudinal riblets, ridges perpendicular
to surface, to reduce drag on flat surfaces of ships and aircraft. Riblets were used successfully
to reduce drag on the ‘Stars and Stripes’ America’s Cup yacht and were thought to offer
such an advantage that riblets were banned from competition for subsequent events. Shark
skin itself is far more complex than simple longitudinal riblets

[PeepeelaPew]

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[pridmore]

thereare better finishes than wet rub for sure, the rougher matt type finishes do go bit fast but also retain dirt and look like crap and most surfers demand a pretty board, som there has to be a compromise, the wet and dry rubbed board is the happy medium imo....
I remeber trialling our own version of a spray on shark skin, it was fast as heel but was like sandpaper, bleeding knees from duckdiving where there was no wax ( whole new meaning to 'shark skin ), but was good coz when you didnt have much wax, the traction was still pretty good....

bring back shark skin I say....
black board paint is super fast also.......

[ajohnsen]

While he doesn't talk about it in this article - http://www.bytimbaker.com/recent_works/ ... y-profile/ - Geoff McCoy says that he's more interested in applying physics than 'feeling' when shaping. He criticised other shapers for not taking a more disciplined approach to shaping.

I was pretty sceptical, initially, but the board he shaped me rates as one of the best, if not the best, I've owned.