RealSurf Surfers' Forum

A few news stories regarding this topic and how some of the past data that was used to dismiss this occurrence has now been proved wrong.

This is from ABC News on line

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 ... 436502.htm

This is from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and that page has a few other links to stories that make interesting reading.

http://www.llnl.gov/pao/news/news_relea ... 08-05.html

And this is from the TerraDaily posted Thursday.

Greenland glacier triples speed because of climate change: Greenpeace


COPENHAGEN (AFP) Aug 11, 2005
The Greenland glacier Kangerdlugssuaq has unexpectedly picked up speed and become one the world's fasted-moving glaciers because of global warming, the environmental organisation Greenpeace said on Thursday.

Independent scientists on board a Greenpeace ship found last month that the glacier, located in eastern Greenland, is moving at a speed of 14 kilometres per year, compared to five kilometres per year in 1988, it said.

The scientists, from the Climate Change Institute in the US state of Maine, also found that the glacier had receded five kilometres since 2001 after remaining stable for four decades.

"This is a dramatic discovery", said scientist Gordon Hamilton.

As the warming trend migrates north, other glaciers could respond in the same way and "this could have serious implications for the rate of sea level rise," he said.

"Greenland's shrinking glaciers are sending an urgent warning to the world that action is needed now to stop climate change," Greenpeace expedition leader Martina Krueger said.

When govt / business / vested interests finally accept that there is no question about global warming (or be forced to acknowledge what they probably already know), one can only hope they'll be ready to accept that things could change very, very quickly.

The thing that scares me about the melting permafrost in Siberia is how scientists are describing it as a 'tipping moment'

(From Sydney Morning Herald yesterday) "It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying tipping points - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a big change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater rise in global temperatures."

The article then goes on to say ....

Dr Kirpotin told the magazine the situation was an "ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming". He said the thaw had probably begun in the past three or four years.

Climate scientists reacted with alarm, and said predictions of future global temperatures would have to be revised upwards.

"When you start messing around with these natural systems you can end up in situations where it's unstoppable," said David Viner, a senior scientist at the University of East Anglia. "There are no brakes you can apply …


Anyone who has seen the swell suddenly improve or deteriorate in a short period is likely to accept that natural systems can and do change very fast.

The depressing thing is we probably can't do a thing to stop it. 'Development' of the new major world economies (see China, India) is not likely to have a heavy focus on energy efficiency. They'll want TVs, fridges, air conditioning, computers and plasma screens like most folk do.

Nothing really left to do other than hope my boy doesn't end up surfing the new point break in the Blue Mountains somewhere in the future.

Global warming is a wank.

It's a sideshow and a distraction from the real problem: there are far too many humans.

We are a plague. Almost everything we do destroys the environment and wipes out other species.

The only thing that will make a real difference is massive culling of humans -- a big enough reduction in the population to allow the planet to recover.

boogaloo wrote:Global warming is a wank.

It's a sideshow and a distraction from the real problem: there are far too many humans.

There is a direct relationship between the acceleration of the global warming problem and global population growth,noone disputes that.

There may be a hell of alot more of us yes,but we need to look at the crappy habits we have which are causing this destruction to our environment.Even if population was to miraculously remain the same,our bad habits would still destroy the environment.

Let's keep that in mind

I think by saying "oh its population growth that's the cause" we're pretty much excusing ourselves from 1.admitting fault and 2. trying to better the current mess we've got ourselves into.

notins gonna happen every time we get a hot day its GLOBAL WARMING
evrytime we get a cold day its GLOBAL WARMING
evrytime we get a bucketload of rain which wee neeed its global warming

the advent of medicines,vaccines etc combined with vastly improved sanitation and hygiene allowed for reduced infant mortality and increased lifespan of humans. Is this the cause? Just thought I'd throw the concept into the mix!

/\/\/\

That's the reason we live longer. It also increases the birth rate.

But the main reason the human population is so big is agriculture (including the 'harvesting' of the ocean). It's also one of the primary reasons for the destruction of the natural environment and other species.

Nobody is going to do anything about this in any meaningful way. When China had a one-child policy the rest of the world in general considered it to be cruel and heartless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQcfh6zYQQ

check it out.this senator needs to be fired for stupidity.

When the inevitable day of mass peril arrives which, could be biblical (doubtful) or geological (super volcanos, meteors, earthquakes) or ofcourse nuclear winter, global warming will be a futile debate.
You all fail to realise that the human race wont survive to the point where global warming kills masses of animal species. The sun, volcanos, nuclear arsenal and of course the divine beings will get us first. Moral of the ramble....go surf and stop worrying.

what a stupid remark to make!

it's like saying "well i didn't hit that person in the serious car accident so i wont stop and help"

wake up to yourself.Part of being human is actually caring about those things within our domain of control,especially when we are responsible for it.

I have a neutral stance on the issue, but after watching that clip, I have decided to play devils advocate;
Based of the reputable source of CNN (they have never excluded facts from a story have they? Body count in Iraq, Progress in Iraq, Terrorist threat??).

"the warmest temperatures in 12000 years"
The inhabitants of Mesopotania and Modern day Egypt were the most advanced at this time. Im only a high school student who has HSC knowledge, but did Herodotus record daily temperature in Egypt? Did anyone have a thermometer? And if you say "they have computer models" thats for climate, not temperature and its also a simulation of likely climate.

The hockey stick graph "despite some flaws"
"Most scientific findings"
There is no certainty that Global warming is an issue. The most commonly used piece of evidence (the Hockey Stick Graph) has some flaws. Its like Greenpeace commenting on endangered fish when they have only studied one millionth (being generous) of the oceans surface.

"The two most influencial environmental protection agencies"
Well, like the oil companies paying the Senator Inhoff, Greenpeace and WWF (im assuming) have an interest in the Global Warming debate. Im not sure about this case, but animal conservationists haven't exactly used.... fair tactics in the past have they. I'll direct you too the organisation PETA who has strong affiliations with the ALF (Animal Liberation Front). These guys are a peice of work, they rescue animals, from animal shelters and release them too the wild (where they will undoubtably be eaten or die of the cold) and in the process, they destroy these animal shelters?!?!
Even if we don't take the "animal conservationists are way too extreme to be credible" arguement further, they still provide a biased case.
Conservationist's motto is to "have a voice for those who can't speak" (this includes birds that can), to protect and encourage the poulation of animals. So the easiest and most effective way to do this, is to bombard the public with an arguement to say, SAVE OUR ANIMALS.
The WWF website states that Polar Bears could be extinct in the next hundred years..... this ofcourse is due to less hunting space. The fact is, if the caps did melt, the polar bears would thrive over that hundred year timeframe. Put 600 rabbits in an arena the size of Australia with 5 foxes, and the foxes will be less nourished in comparison to an arena the size of Mossman. More eating means more breeding...come on, I learnt this in year 8 Biology, surely a rich organisation like the WWF knows better?

Finally, in the Old Kingdom of Egypt, around 6 000 BC, there was a famine. This was due to extreme heat and locust infestation. There are records of famine in areas such as England, Italy, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Greece at the same time. Though there was no form of writing in most of these areas, we can tell from soil and pollen analysis. The reason for this tangent is that Global Warming was a total non-event during these times, The smoke from a few bush and camp fires is hardly enough to alter the environment. Why is it that this couldn't occur 8 000 years later?

i'll attack that later tonight when i have time to sift through the essay you wrote

I did say devils advocate, so don't get too personal, lol.

Stupid or pragmatic?

boogaloo wrote:Global warming is a wank.

It's a sideshow and a distraction from the real problem: there are far too many humans.

We are a plague. Almost everything we do destroys the environment and wipes out other species.

The only thing that will make a real difference is massive culling of humans -- a big enough reduction in the population to allow the planet to recover.

exactly. theres too many of us to stop global warming.
face the music the planet will fix itself!

Come on Chamberess, bite back! Prove me wrong

Mostly clear and 17 degrees celcius..........Global warming is working over time

Then may I suggest you go take a look at An Inconvenient Truth.

It's playing now at the Hayden Orpheum at Cremorne. It's made a convert of me.

www.climatecrisis.net

I would watch it, but it was produced by someone who ran for President in the US. Therefore, i worry about its credibility, "i did not have sexual relations....", "Iraq is harbouring terrorists...", "Saddam had WOMD's", "Watergate is a plot to undermine my authority", "ask not what your country can do for you...." (i love that one, what has the US done for its people? Widen the economic gap?)