Get this!

[ctd]

There is often a loss when new technology and new ways of doing things occur. Even when there are new ways of doing new things (Alta Vista anyone?)

But new technology only works when it offers advantages over old technology. Boards that are cheaper - well, shapers suffer no doubt. But if better boards are now available and within the reach of more people, other than selfishness, how can you say that is bad?

Will it improve the overall quality of boards - does it, in fact, get rid of those chinese pop outs, because who buys a cheap and short lasting board if a quality properly designed board is only $50 or $100 more expensive (instead of $500 or $800, as is currently the case). Do we end up with boards that last longer, or are more refined or more whatever?

Just because technology can do something, it doesnt mean people will let it happen. Unless there are benefits to it. If there arent, if shapers continue to make better boards, then the technology wont take off to any greater extent that it has to date. If there are, then whats your argument - we should hold back technology?

[tootr]

Very interesting thread.

i've been thinking of a lower size base fin for my bonzer octafish for when condtions are less than great, ie to get a little more "reacitivity" , at the expense of a little drive of course.

[Roy_Stewart]

Scary isn't it! Nah, the china thing is a finite resource and the surfboard manufacturer of the future will have a his printer out the back, along with a massive investment in new tech. He will ask if you want a set of boards with similar specs to suit 2' -3' - 4' - 6' waves. The same basic board tailored to specific waves and conditions. Imagine saying to the designer/shaper "I'm off to Indo in 3 weeks and i'm expecting to to surf lakeys from 3' to 6'". And getting a quiver of boards that suit you and the wave perfectly. They will be packaged in a custom plastic case that fits the three boards snugly and with all accessories included in the package, alternative fins, customised grip deck, colour coordinated with your boardies, backpack, a retractable legrope that will not tangle, built in cameras on the nose, tail and underneath (to catch the reef) and a tethered drone that will follow your every move and document your trip (choose the music track from iTunes). There will be a package of ladyboy/massage/fun girls included in the price.

yer on it....wow ....will every family have "his son Elroy" , "daughter Judy" and "Jane his wife" ?......and have a steady job at Spacely Space Sprockets ?......a dog named Tralfazz ?.......there always seems to be a downside to 90% of all new tech , and its conveniently buried under the mandatory mountain of introductory marketing fanfare , until targeted market share has been achieved , a few laws have been changed , the monopolies have been established and the money is in the bank....... consideration to being a genuine advancement is secondary to the projected profit & loss sheet........it's not scarey at all Spork , it's **** annoying and counter productive.....the constant acceleration in the race for the next big thing leads to exactly where ?........always chew your food 20 times before you swallow it.....or you'll **** up your digestive system from gluttony.

well said

[Roy_Stewart]

My post was tongue in cheek, duh Roy and Kayu.

Yeah right

[Roy_Stewart]

Very interesting thread.

i've been thinking of a lower size base fin for my bonzer octafish for when condtions are less than great, ie to get a little more "reacitivity" , at the expense of a little drive of course.

Fins? Wrong thread.....

[kayu]

My post was tongue in cheek, duh Roy and Kayu.

So was mine , duh Spork.

[Trev]

Hey tev...just wondering...have you changed the criteria for advertising via the forums

Not as far as I know, Fong. Why?

[Roy_Stewart]

I can refrain from sharing these projects if it is deemed to be unacceptable, no problem.

[Trev]

I can refrain from sharing these projects if it is deemed to be unacceptable, no problem.

Roy, if this is what Fong is referring to, I wanted him to spell it out.
The policy on "advertising" is pretty clear. But I don't see posts/ threads from regulars sharing what they're doing as advertising. In the case of yourself, JD, Pridmore and others who have posted similar stuff on here over the years, the input from your experience is what it's all about.

Please carry on.

Any blatant advertising from relative newcomers gets deleted or moved to the appropriate thread. You don't ft that bill.

[alakaboo]

Any blatant advertising from relative newcomers gets deleted or moved to the appropriate thread.

The chopes and bro thread?

[otway1949]

The whole Fongss thing is the RS version of a Wagnerian Soap Opera overlaid with Gaugainian Polynesian fantasies.
Worth inclusion for the tragicomedic values alone.

Happy to see Roy's ideas and the arguments they engender, after all, isn't that exactly what a forum is about!
I guess wooden board makers have it in their tool kit, "The Axe to grind ".

[Trev]

Any blatant advertising from relative newcomers gets deleted or moved to the appropriate thread.

The chopes and bro thread?

Well, Fong has been around longer than most of us. And it's entertaining, if somewhat sad. And Surfiec has provided plenty of input, too over the last couple of years.

[Drailed]

My dog died this morning and then I accidentally dropped my baby into a food blender and vapourised him but then I thought of chopes and Bro and realsied that compared to some I really am quite lucky. Chopes and Bro needs to stay

[PeepeelaPew]

...

[pirate_agenda]

roy,

interested in your take for a set of thruster fins, or hatchet style twins

[MrMik]

and I spend up to 40 hours hand foiling a longboard fin...

Wow, >><< does that include waiting for resin to dry or just time with the sander?
I've never made a fin, clueless about the intricacies of it all.

Anyone who sees the McCoy Gull Wing alongside the Warp Drive Gull Wing can see the difference in the quality of the foiling immediately... and of course the Warp Drive fin is only 170 grams in weight compared with the McCoy which weighs 320 grams.

I have about 5 standard Gull-wing fins, and they are all different from each other. The one with the snap-in system and the gold paint is definitively the one that came with my first McCoy Astron Zot. 2 more came with used single fin McCoy boards, and 2 fins I bought of ebay. The ones from ebay were in my opinion "factory seconds", not good enough to be sold with a board, and were about 1/2 price.
I sort of lost track of which fin came from where. It's interesting to examine the fins, it makes it clear how difficult it is to fully understand their three-dimensional structure. Some of them seem to have a bit of warp in them, but it's hard to see unless the light is right. The thickness at the widest point is different between the fins, too. As I said, the "factory seconds" might explain some of the differences, but none of the 5 fins are identical, even to my bare eyes.

My big question is: Do these small differences really matter?

On the subject of weight the warp Drive has significant positive buoyancy, given that this is in the fin not the board it comes with no penalty in terms of board thickness. The McCoy fin on the other hand has negative buoyancy which has to be overcome by the hull of the surfboard.

A floating fin! How nice. That's a difference I "get"!

Regarding weight to strength ratio and such, I would like to suggest a further improvement to any fin, particularly computer manufactured ones (because it would be too hard to get it right by hand):
There should be a predetermined breaking point in the fin, so it snaps off rather than wrecking the board.

Here's a McCoy Gull Wing which was finished with a gold spray. One can see where the gold spray has worn off in a line about 2/3rds of the way back starting near the fin base. It has worn off there because that's the back end of the flat zone and there's a big corner/bump there in the foiling. Behind that there's a trough followed by another corner, then the trailing edge hooks in with an accelerating curve like a hooked leech on a sail. It's no worse or better than most hand foiled single fins but it's not good. There's another bump/corner near the leading edge, that is the front of the flat zone.

The gold spray paint was added after-market to cover up the logo. I thought the missing paint at the tip was simply rubbed off by contact with the sand, when riding the board all the way to the beach and from laying the board down on the beach. But I have not considered any alternative explanations and you may well be right.

[/quote]

[Roy_Stewart]

roy,

interested in your take for a set of thruster fins, or hatchet style twins

We can do just about anything, but the drawings for custom fins can be time consuming, and thus expensive.

At present we have a BLEF Spitfire thruster set in fcs and futures which might be of interest, in 4.25" and 4.5" sizes. Fins can be ordered indicidually so it's possible to have alarger or smaller rear fin.

[Roy_Stewart]

and I spend up to 40 hours hand foiling a longboard fin...

Wow, >><< does that include waiting for resin to dry or just time with the sander?
I've never made a fin, clueless about the intricacies of it all.

Just shaping, not including resin work, most of the shaping is done by hand. That's for BLEF foils regular fins are faster to make.

Anyone who sees the McCoy Gull Wing alongside the Warp Drive Gull Wing can see the difference in the quality of the foiling immediately... and of course the Warp Drive fin is only 170 grams in weight compared with the McCoy which weighs 320 grams.

I have about 5 standard Gull-wing fins, and they are all different from each other. The one with the snap-in system and the gold paint is definitively the one that came with my first McCoy Astron Zot. 2 more came with used single fin McCoy boards, and 2 fins I bought of ebay. The ones from ebay were in my opinion "factory seconds", not good enough to be sold with a board, and were about 1/2 price.
I sort of lost track of which fin came from where. It's interesting to examine the fins, it makes it clear how difficult it is to fully understand their three-dimensional structure. Some of them seem to have a bit of warp in them, but it's hard to see unless the light is right. The thickness at the widest point is different between the fins, too. As I said, the "factory seconds" might explain some of the differences, but none of the 5 fins are identical, even to my bare eyes.

My big question is: Do these small differences really matter?

Small differences can matter significantly, it depends though on what the differences are.

Your new fin has inprovements which are not small.

The fin will be in the mail tomorrow sorry that it has taken so long.

On the subject of weight the warp Drive has significant positive buoyancy, given that this is in the fin not the board it comes with no penalty in terms of board thickness. The McCoy fin on the other hand has negative buoyancy which has to be overcome by the hull of the surfboard.

A floating fin! How nice. That's a difference I "get"!

Regarding weight to strength ratio and such, I would like to suggest a further improvement to any fin, particularly computer manufactured ones (because it would be too hard to get it right by hand):
There should be a predetermined breaking point in the fin, so it snaps off rather than wrecking the board.

That's a feature of the Warp Drive single fins, and is one of the reasons why the tab is at the front of the fin.

Here's a McCoy Gull Wing which was finished with a gold spray. One can see where the gold spray has worn off in a line about 2/3rds of the way back starting near the fin base. It has worn off there because that's the back end of the flat zone and there's a big corner/bump there in the foiling. Behind that there's a trough followed by another corner, then the trailing edge hooks in with an accelerating curve like a hooked leech on a sail. It's no worse or better than most hand foiled single fins but it's not good. There's another bump/corner near the leading edge, that is the front of the flat zone.

The gold spray paint was added after-market to cover up the logo. I thought the missing paint at the tip was simply rubbed off by contact with the sand, when riding the board all the way to the beach and from laying the board down on the beach. But I have not considered any alternative explanations and you may well be right.

[/quote]

I see. I didn't mention the wearing off of the paint at the tip, that whole area has obviously been worn down by sand, as you say. It's the vertical bands further towards the base which are interesting regarding foil shape.