Ask Carroll

[Nick Carroll]

NC, what's your favourite word to use when you write? why?

I don't know if I have a favourite. They're all just so goddam terrific. I'm more of an elegantly formed sentence man myself. When I write a good one of those, I get all tingly.

[daryl]

Yup, longer the better with less punctuation ooh yeah

[bumfluff]

All this talk of getting a big woody from writing is giving a me a big soft on. Im also trying to get my head around the fact that Carroll, in a round about way, just told us that he orgasms after writing a particularly good piece. Also adding to said soft on.

[Morgan The Moon]

I expect I'll get some stick for this....

....as jealous as I was of Alan, there was one thing about him that puzzled me. He surfed his yellow board really well but he never wanted to surf anything above 3 feet. I found his reluctance to challenge himself strange 'The Wave Within - TC & Kirk Willcox

Nic I'm in a similar situation to Alan at this point in time. I feel very confident in waves upto 1.5 OH, but DOH and I'm chicken shit. (and yup, I think I may be the first member of the kookocracy)

In all fairness, I didn't really learn to swim properly until I was in my twenties, and if my twenty year old self could see the 40 year old in the water, he'd be proud! But I'd like to gain confidence in DOH conditions before I get too old.

My main fear is water movement, and swimming in if I lose the board. It's not a problem when it's 4 foot but at 6 foot...

I'm also concerned about putting others in danger out there if I can't hold onto my board when the sets roll through......but I can duck my current board pretty well.

Of course, these could just be excuses.....I think I have the skills to begin to handle the size (it's not really that big is it?) but I get really intimidated out there. How do I get over the hump?

[crabmeat thompson]

My main fear is water movement, and swimming in if I lose the board. It's not a problem when it's 4 foot but at 6 foot...

I had this through my early teen years. Was debilitating and frustrating as all hell. Watchin waves I knew I could surf, but I was fearful of all the moving water and all of the possible scenarios if a leggie snapped, or my board did.

Slowly exposing yourself to these situations and getting out there and swimming (preferably with a friend) can be a great to get over this. Hit up your local pool and get some swimming stamina by doing laps and then hit the ocean in some swell and slowly desensitize yourself to moving water, rips and currents.

Fact is, most rips and currents, if you do nothing, not even swim, just stay afloat they will take you out the back, along the beach and into waves which'll spit you back onto the beach.

[Nick Carroll]

How do I get over the hump?

There's only one way over the hump, and that's straight ahead.

I am a great fan of visualising as a part of training, but you can't visualise what you haven't experienced. Everything in surfing is about practice, actually doing it. I guess the issue with trying to tackle bigger and bigger surf is that you're at the mercy of the elements, and you don't get to choose when to practice. When you're a little kid, you're kind of used to this, you don't get to choose anything at the age of 12. But at 40, you're used to being in command of situations. You're gonna have to throw that kind of thinking away and focus on doing what you haven't done before.

Can I tell ya, double overhead surf is exactly like two foot surf. Waves move the same way, they break the same way, the same instincts that allow you to read two foot surf will work in bigger surf too, if you just give 'em a chance.

You're older, you're able to process information better than when you were a kid. That's your advantage here. Watch closely what happens during your attempts in larger surfs, learn from the errors, benefit from the successes.

[Nick Carroll]

C'mon dino - join the party, sunshine!

tomtom, this thread is not about you and your feud with dino. Ask a question, or don't waste my time or space.

[steve shearer]

Fact is, most rips and currents, if you do nothing, not even swim, just stay afloat they will take you out the back, along the beach and into waves which'll spit you back onto the beach.

Thats some dangerous and incorrect advice to give to a fella trying to learn to ride big surf.

Quite often especially in big surf with a lot of water movement rips and current will put you in harms way and you need a strategy to deal with it before you hit the water.

Quick local example.
The rip in the corner at Tallows (Cosy Corner) is a nice little elevator ride out the back.
Throw in a medium/large south swell and tremendous amounts of water are being forced out that rip, then the longshore current is taking that water around Cape Byron.
The strongest swimmer can't make it back to the beach.
You have to go around Cape Byron and then swim in through bommies and strong currents to make it ashore in Byron Bay.
That rip claims lives on quite calm days because people are lulled into thinking that eventually it will take them to the beach. It won't.
It will carry most people to their grave unless rescued or extremely capable and calm open ocean swimmers.
There are many other examples I can think of.
Never assume the ocean will carry you back in, always have a clear understanding of where the prevailing water movement will take you and how you will safely back in if the leggy snaps.
That may be a long swim to the next bay.

[steve shearer]

Can I tell ya, double overhead surf is exactly like two foot surf.

I've got to disagree with you here Nick, especially after what I just witnessed on the weekend.
The level of general incompetence in solid 6ft surf by the vast majority was amazing.
The speed and volume of water moving in a 6ft wave is of an several orders of magnitude greater than a 2ft wave. Throw in a decent offshore wind and a vertical drop and you've got some basic physical dimensions to overcome if you want to ride it.
Most punters on the weekend didn't have sufficient volume, rail line or skill to take a late drop and immediately get the basic bottom turn up into the trim line to make the wave.
Or they couldn't match the wave speed, or they couldn't draw a sufficiently long enough bottom or top turn to make the wave.
If I were you I'd start with equipment. Get a really good semi-gun, probably a little over-volumed if your 40 and don't surf like Slater.
The first thing in big surf is you have to catch the wave. You need something you can totally trust to get you in and make the drop and bottom turn.
If your going to surf perfect big waves like Indo you can downsize.
Big gnarly waves with current and wind bump : upsize.
I love seeing guys paddling into monster surf (20-25ft plus outer reefs or beachbreak) now on 10 footers.
Nothing beats the rush of paddling into a big wave.

Here is Derek Doerners mantra which I have stuck to.
Training is the solution.
Nutrition is the key.
Equipment has to be the best you can get.

Good luck.
Sorry to hijack Nick.

[Nick Carroll]

^^No worries.

I want Morgan to see the situation differently: as something he can understand on the basis of his earlier surfing experience. The people you're talking about are going into the water without really thinking about it that way. What you're describing above, about how to deal with slightly larger surf, is what you've learned. I have found that to be kind of useless when assisting other surfers to take new steps; the only person who's going to be able to learn from an account of your direct experience is someone who's walking in your shoes somehow, which means they're either your brother, or you're in AA or NA together. Anyone else, when reading about what you've done in the context of trying to learn what they need to do, will experience a distancing effect; they will sense that your experience is different from theirs, and find it hard to apply in practice, if they recall it at all. Each of us has to teach ourselves how to surf; the key to helping people with that is to get them to think about what they already know, and tip 'em off on how to build on it. I think you were fortunate with Doerner, he seems to have hit you at the right moment; he's a natural teacher.

[bumfluff]

So would it be fair to say that paddling into larger surf with some kind of mentor would be a good way to go about it and have them just be a bit of a fly on the wall and only intervene if the situation got dangerous?

To save a precious post NC, if the answer to the above is "yes" then add one green man to your next post like so " "

If the answer is no, add two green men like so " "

If you think im a f*cking d*ck head who should just shut up and leave you alone, insert this guy " "

And finally, just for kicks, if you think Tomtom is actually really gay, insert this one " "

[bumfluff]

I'll be the first to admit that my life has been a pretty sad one, using humour & shit talking as a way of getting through it. It's a family trait.

Nick, my question is: do you think the amount of bullshit posted by members is proportional to how sad their lives are?

So, saying that - am a right to assume that bumfluff is one messed up muthafcuker?

Are you, in a round a bout way, saying that you find me amusing? Or just that I am a sh*t stirer.

I will put it on the record that I am more messed up than anyone I know.

[crabmeat thompson]

Fact is, most rips and currents, if you do nothing, not even swim, just stay afloat they will take you out the back, along the beach and into waves which'll spit you back onto the beach.

Thats some dangerous and incorrect advice to give to a fella trying to learn to ride big surf.

Quite often especially in big surf with a lot of water movement rips and current will put you in harms way and you need a strategy to deal with it before you hit the water.

Quick local example.
The rip in the corner at Tallows (Cosy Corner) is a nice little elevator ride out the back.
Throw in a medium/large south swell and tremendous amounts of water are being forced out that rip, then the longshore current is taking that water around Cape Byron.
The strongest swimmer can't make it back to the beach.
You have to go around Cape Byron and then swim in through bommies and strong currents to make it ashore in Byron Bay.
That rip claims lives on quite calm days because people are lulled into thinking that eventually it will take them to the beach. It won't.
It will carry most people to their grave unless rescued or extremely capable and calm open ocean swimmers.
There are many other examples I can think of.
Never assume the ocean will carry you back in, always have a clear understanding of where the prevailing water movement will take you and how you will safely back in if the leggy snaps.
That may be a long swim to the next bay.

I agree and disagree. In hindsight I probably should have put a disclaimer with my advice. I guess I presumed Morgan wouldn't swim himself into an instantly hairy situation and drown.

The gist of what I was getting at: The best way for Morgan to gain confidence is by taking baby steps and doing it. Start at swimming 2-3 ft then work up to taking a swim at 6ft. Swimming out to some heavy beachies and move around in the rips and sweep and getting a feel for the ocean on bigger days is probably the best confidence raiser. In that kind of circumstance just staying afloat and conserving energy will see you able to body surf white water back to terra firma.

I wouldn't swim tallows in a south swell. same as the northern corner of Dbah for the same reasons ... In fact If i'm morgan I'd steer clear of any point or headland for now.

[bumfluff]

My humble advice would also be to start small and simply make your first goal paddling out to the line up and back in safely. Get a feel for the conditions. Condition yourself to match them. Get used to the little things that are abnormal and may take your mind off focusing.

Like the massive spray that showers you with a strong off shore wind on a big day. At first that can be intimidating as you wonder how big the wave actually must be. You may think the wave is going to suck you into it as you sit there and send you over the falls due to the sheer amount of water thats moving. But just getting a feel for sitting out the back helped me a lot.

Also get used to rocking off and duckdiving in bigger stuff, before actually contemplating ripping the face apart.

But we digress. Over to you Carroll.

[crabmeat thompson]

Hey NC when was the last time you completely shit yourself in the water?

[steve shearer]

^^No worries.

I want Morgan to see the situation differently: as something he can understand on the basis of his earlier surfing experience. The people you're talking about are going into the water without really thinking about it that way. What you're describing above, about how to deal with slightly larger surf, is what you've learned. I have found that to be kind of useless when assisting other surfers to take new steps; the only person who's going to be able to learn from an account of your direct experience is someone who's walking in your shoes somehow, which means they're either your brother, or you're in AA or NA together. Anyone else, when reading about what you've done in the context of trying to learn what they need to do, will experience a distancing effect; they will sense that your experience is different from theirs, and find it hard to apply in practice, if they recall it at all. Each of us has to teach ourselves how to surf; the key to helping people with that is to get them to think about what they already know, and tip 'em off on how to build on it. I think you were fortunate with Doerner, he seems to have hit you at the right moment; he's a natural teacher.

Sorry Nick I'm not just passing on my direct experience but what I've been taught and shown and also observed.
Main Point being: Riding big surf or even bigger surf is a confidence thing.
One of the main practical ways to improve confidence is to start with the correct equipment, so instead of flapping frantically away in the impact zone on a 6'2" you can actually catch some waves and have fun.
If someone asked you how you would be able to drive through a soft sandy track you'd reasonably say, "well you need a 4WD"
How could this piece of advice cause a "distancing effect" in Morgs?
(sorry that is another question).
It seems to me to just be a basic tenet that your average rec surfer doesn't really grasp (or are too brainwashed by the prevailing board fashions of the time).
You need different equipment to ride bigger surf unless your a highly skilled pro.
Maybe, with all due respect, it's your experience with mostly Pro surfers that has caused you to become distanced to the experience of the recreational surfer.

[steve shearer]

and doing it. Start at swimming 2-3 ft then work up to taking a swim at 6ft. Swimming out to some heavy beachies and move around in the rips and sweep and getting a feel for the ocean on bigger days is probably the best confidence raiser.

You serious?
When was the last time you swam out at a 6ft beachy just for a lark?
Last time my leggy snapped in a 6ft beachie it took me half an hour to get back to the beach. The rips were shifting and gnarly.
As they are at most east coast beachies under heavy swell.

That'd be one of the worst ways to get confidence and probably a good way to drown unless your supremely fit.

Bloke needs a line-up that makes sense with a clear path in and out, preferably a reef or point. Somewhere where the waves are breaking more or less predictably ( a line-up that he can understand) so he can find position for catching waves and being in a safe spot (well as safe as he can be). And a good board with more paddle-power and projection.

[oldman]

Describe what you can of the next 30 seconds of your life?

Well shit, it's like an underwater car crash.............

Thanks NIck. A hoot, plus some ideas in there to take in.