Near drowning at Palm Beach?

[S4MS]

On Sunday at Palm Beach I saw this guy get dragged out of the water. For a full 30 mins people were doing CPR (at first other surfers then the life guards) before the ambos took him away. It was horrible to watch, I was sure he was a gonner after so long pumping his chest.

However looks like he survived which is great:

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/lates ... YWxsPTE%3D

Anyone know if he pulled through? Also, it's my understanding that if you're doing CPR, that means the heart isn't working & the brain will be starved of oxygen pretty quickly. This poor guy was in this state for at least 30 mins plus however long he was floating in the water so I can't see how he could have survived. Do you do CPR even if the heart is working? Or can CPR in itself push oxygenated blood through the system?

[otway1949]

On Sunday at Palm Beach I saw this guy get dragged out of the water. For a full 30 mins people were doing CPR (at first other surfers then the life guards) before the ambos took him away. It was horrible to watch, I was sure he was a gonner after so long pumping his chest.
Also, it's my understanding that if you're doing CPR, that means the heart isn't working & the brain will be starved of oxygen pretty quickly. This poor guy was in this state for at least 30 mins plus however long he was floating in the water so I can't see how he could have survived. Do you do CPR even if the heart is working? Or can CPR in itself push oxygenated blood through the system?

S4MS, mate I hear your concern and sympathy for the guy.
You're right about CPR does mean the heart isn't working but CPR aims to maintain a circulation of blood throughout the body and especially to the brain to stop death of brain cells and eventually the brain.
The P part of CPR is pulmonary that is the breaths given helping to put oxygen into the lungs for the C cardio part the chest compression to squeeze the heart to push oxygenated blood around the body.
CPR is not done when the heart is beating, but other first aid treatments may be necessary.

With good team work it is surprising how many people you might think were goners pull through.

I would recommend that any surfer (actually anybody) learn first aid it is not something you want to have your first attempt at in an emergency.
St John's Ambulance, Red Cross and of course Surf Life Saving Australia all run courses.

You feel bad seeing that, how bad would you feel if you couldn't save a mate?
Give your friends a big sign of respect, do the course and carry a decent first aid kit!

[Natho]

Yeh I was there on Sunday myself when this situation went down. Lets hope he is ok.
otway is correct, chest compressions are only done when there is no pulse (otherwise you could even end up killing a person whoes heart is perfectly fine).

If there is a pulse, but they are not breathing then you should use breaths only, no compressions.

Compressions only if there is no pulse.

Now I urge every surfer to go learn CPR if you don't know it already.

[longyfreshy]

I have recently done 1st aid and have done a few in the past. They are now teaching that if the patient is not breathing to give CPR straight away. I know there has been some issues with this because if there is a pulse you could do something with the rhythm of the heart. The arguement is that there is alot of time wasting in trying to find a pulse as some patients have very weak pulses, are overweight and harder find etc etc and by giving CPR you are giving the patient the best chance. They are also saying that if you can't give them mouth to mouth due to mouth/jaw damage or not having a mask for yourself that CPR should still be given.

I know this will have alot of people questioning this but this is what they are teaching 1 breathe and 30 compressions, I think if you can help in anyway it is worth a shot!

[chrisb]

Poor guy. That's the risk with apparent drowning rescues. If your'e not aware that they also have a spinal injury then carrying them out of the surf without spinal injury precautions could worsen that injury.

When I did a first aid course years ago for apparent drownings the ABC principle was recommended. In order:
A = Airways. Make sure the airway is clear of obstructions and position the head so the airway is free flowing. Sometimes this may be all that is needed for recovery and you need go no further.
B = Breathing. If not breathing commence mouth-to-mouth resuscitation
C = Circulation. If no pulse apply CPR.

I hope I remembered that correctly as I haven't had any emergencies yet.

[Nick Carroll]

chrisb what you learned is a bit out of date.

natho, chest compressions won't do too much bad stuff to a faintly beating heart...and not many people don't breathe while their heart's beating. And it is often bloody hard to tell if there's a pulse of any kind unless you're very highly trained and experienced. That's why a defibrillator is a very very good thing.

SM4S yes, CPR done right works because it keeps oxygenated blood circulating through the brain and other vital organs.

as always strongly urge as many of us as possible to do a thorough course of training in this stuff. And update it even if you've done it already. 'Cause unless you use it, you lose it.