Minimal to fish transition

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maxwolfie
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Minimal to fish transition

Post by maxwolfie » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:04 pm

Hi all, I haven't been surfing that long (I've only been out about 15 times) but already I feel as though riding a minimal is holding back my turns and manoeuvrability. My instructor has also suggested that I'm decent enough to think about buying a fish surfboard. I can pop up very quickly and can make decent right handed bottom turns. I am struggling a little with left handed bottom turns on the minimal. Even with right handed bottom turns, the arc of the turn is extremely wide - it feels like driving a bus. This is really the main reason why I am wanting to upgrade to a fish.

I am surfing small - medium waves, anything from 2 - 4 ft (or thereabouts), however I probably could surf slightly larger and I am learning very quickly. If it makes any difference, I am surfing beaches around Newcastle, NSW, Australia. Ultimately my goal is to progress to a shortboard and try a few tricks.

I am a bit stuck on length, width and thickness though, I am also aware that there are a couple of different types of fish - retro and hybrid, and then of course fin setup is another consideration. Considering that I am 6'2" (188cm) and 176lbs (80kg), what type (retro or hybrid), fin setup and dimensions of fish should I be looking for?

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chrisb
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by chrisb » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:37 pm

Before prescribing a specific fish just a couple of questions:-

1) How long, wide and thick is your mini-mal?
The bigger the minimal, the greater the adjustment to a fish.

2) How old and fit are you?
Your weight is not an issue but if you're not fit and/or "older", say 50+ a fish could be a challenge.

Elmako
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Elmako » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:16 pm

Hi there, good advice from your instructor, however do not narrow your options to a fish, I think he may have suggested a fish so you could undertand that in order to go shorter, you need to compensate with going wider and/or thicker, and this is the principle behind a fish.

You could have the same flotation of your current board, on a way shorter board and it does not necessarily have to be a Fish type of board. A half decent shaper can help you with this. You can also talk to your local surfshop.

The beachbreaks in Newy pack pretty decent punch, so the days you surf 4 footers, you will need a board a bit more "agile" than a fish, again a shaper/local surfshop can help you with this.

If you are going to be surfing 3+ days per week, you will get better quick and wont need as much volume, think about this when getting your shorter board.

Some surfshops have demo boards, go test a couple.

Good luck and keep surfing,

J

maxwolfie
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by maxwolfie » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:31 pm

chrisb wrote:Before prescribing a specific fish just a couple of questions:-

1) How long, wide and thick is your mini-mal?
The bigger the minimal, the greater the adjustment to a fish.

2) How old and fit are you?
Your weight is not an issue but if you're not fit and/or "older", say 50+ a fish could be a challenge.
Thanks for your reply.

1. I have an NSP Funboard - 7'6'' 21 3/4'' 2 7/8'' 51 ltr FCS M7 70kg / 154lb (even though I'm 80kg, it seems to work okay).
http://www.surfindustries.com.au/surfbo ... boards.php

2. I am 28, and pretty fit.
Elmako wrote:Hi there, good advice from your instructor, however do not narrow your options to a fish, I think he may have suggested a fish so you could undertand that in order to go shorter, you need to compensate with going wider and/or thicker, and this is the principle behind a fish.

You could have the same flotation of your current board, on a way shorter board and it does not necessarily have to be a Fish type of board. A half decent shaper can help you with this. You can also talk to your local surfshop.

The beachbreaks in Newy pack pretty decent punch, so the days you surf 4 footers, you will need a board a bit more "agile" than a fish, again a shaper/local surfshop can help you with this.

If you are going to be surfing 3+ days per week, you will get better quick and wont need as much volume, think about this when getting your shorter board.

Some surfshops have demo boards, go test a couple.

Good luck and keep surfing,

J
Cheers for the reply, I understand what you are saying. I definitely won't be surfing 3 days per week in the Winter (due to lack of time/daylight), but the plan is to surf at least 3 days a week when daylight savings kicks back in.

I am wondering if there is any advantage to buy a retro or hybrid style fish, and also the differences between twin/tri/quad fin setups? - See more at: http://www.surfing-waves.com/forum/view ... 84#p164684

EDIT: Would something like an NSP Fish 6'6" fit the bill? 6'6'' 21 3/8'' 2 5/8'' 43 ltr FCS M7 75kg / 165lb (I am 80kg though)
http://www.surfindustries.com.au/surfbo ... p_fish.php

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Davros
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Davros » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:06 pm

I reckon learn to ride a larger standard short board first say 6'8-6'10 with a bit of bottom curve to it, it will improve your overall surfing, then try the fish and you'll see the difference in board design with super flat boards and curvier rockers. I ride fish and standard boards for different conditions but my view is turning is fun and more critical turns aren't done on fish.

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chrisb
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by chrisb » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:25 am

Davros wrote:I reckon learn to ride a larger standard short board first say 6'8-6'10 with a bit of bottom curve to it, it will improve your overall surfing, then try the fish and you'll see the difference in board design with super flat boards and curvier rockers. I ride fish and standard boards for different conditions but my view is turning is fun and more critical turns aren't done on fish.
Yes, I agree with much of that. Based on what you've said neither age, ability or fitness are an impediment to your progress.

However, if you're not 100% sure of what board to buy you could call on yours or your instructor's contacts to hook you up with a reputable local shaper or boardshop.

When they know you're genuine about wanting to quickly progress to a shorter board they would most certainly be happy to either lend or hire to you suitable boards with the option to buy later.

maxwolfie
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by maxwolfie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:53 pm

Still looking around and intending on riding some boards before ultimately deciding but I walked into my local store and found that they were having some great specials on Mark Richards boards as follows:



Puffer fish:
http://www.markrichardssurfboards.com/b ... puffer.php

Image
Image
This is a new model for 2009. It has more volume than the Flying Fish, and size for size, it is ¾" wider. It has been designed for surf in the 1' – 4' range and it excels in poor surf conditions.

Features:

added width, thickness and flatter rocker than the Flying Fish model, for performance in small waves;
a full nose with a low entry rocker for planing speed and ease of catching waves;
a single to double concave bottom with an accentuated V like spine in the double concave which gives it an easy rail to rail transition;
a double wing swallow to reduce the tail area which allows for quick direction changes and assists rail to rail transition;
a swallow tail for bite and holding power through turns.
Even though this is a wider fish, it is still designed to surf from rail to rail and can turn a small sloppy surf session into a ton of fun.
The standard fin setup is an FCS 3 fin thruster however it may be custom ordered with a Super Twin set-up of 2 FCS twin fins plus an FCS rear stabilizer fin OR an FCS Quad set-up. The size range is from 5'8" up to 7'2".




Squid:
http://www.markrichardssurfboards.com/b ... _squid.php

Image
Image
This is a new fish model for Summer 2010 / 2011 designed to make 2'-4' surf fun. It has less rocker and more width and thickness in the nose than my other 2 fishes ( Flying and Puffer). Like the other 2 it is a performance oriented fish and has been designed to surf rail to rail.

Features:

More thickness in the first 12" of the nose to improve floatation and paddling
No wings, which increases the tail area, which helps to keep it gliding in small surf
Low nose rocker for planing over dead sections
A single-to-double concave bottom with a pronounced spine on the stringer through the tail to give it a V-like feel which helps the board go from rail to rail
A slight deck roll resulting in increased volume in the rail to stop it sinking in small surf.
There are 3 options for the tail shape:
stock as a no-wing swallow tail
a wing-swallow
a wing-diamond.
Even though this is a wider fish, it is still designed to surf from rail to rail and can turn a small sloppy surf session into a ton of fun.
Standard fin set-up is FCS 3 fin Thruster but can be custom ordered as a Twin Fin with Stabiliser, or with 5 sets of plugs to give you the Quad / Thuster option.

The size range is from 5'6" up to 7'0".


The guy suggested 7'2" in either of these boards, I am not sure if that's too long and is going to end up being too similar to the Minimal (too hard to turn). Also not sure whether the shape of the Puffer fish or the Squid is going to be more suited to me.

I've asked my instructor to bring along a fish for me to try out this weekend, but the stocks above will be limited so I really want to be prepared if it all works out.

maxwolfie
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by maxwolfie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:37 pm

wingnut2443 wrote:Don't rush to buy anything, or panic that you're going to miss the 'sale'. There are plenty of options, and always another sale 'just around the corner' :mrgreen:

Work out what you want / need first. :roll: Yep, I know, that's the hard part!

Even consider second hand ... a lot cheaper, and as you improve you'll want to 'upgrade' again, so you'll get most of your money back when you sell it.

Any chance you can post up some video of you surfing the 'minimal' that is too hard to turn? I suspect there is an element of technique that needs tweaking, such as standing further back on the board, or weighting into the turn differently ... With NC as the resident guru on here you may get some valuable input. :wink:

IMHO, that NSP board has a pulled in tail, and so will allow it to be turned fairly easily. It won't ever want to turn as sharp as you see most guys surfing, but it will turn fairly easily ... so, again, I am thinking technique.

Also, what fins have you got in that NSP board you're surfing?
Cheers, sorry no video (no real way to get a decent vid either). It's not actually my board - it's my wife's. So I'm not really upgrading, I'm just buying MY first board. The thing is, I've been borrowing her NSP and my Dad's no-name 8'2" minimal so much that I'm now at the point where buying a true beginner board will be of less value (it won't last as long before I want to upgrade).

Beanpole
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Beanpole » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:39 pm

My 2c worth is that the MR Fishes tend to surf more like standard boards than regular fishes. He makes them up to a fair size. I've looked at them and watched a few people surfing them in point waves. If I was going to get one I would go as small as possible because the big ones seem to have a lot of surface area and a reasonable amount of rocker for that style of board. I reckon as you go longer on a fish it needs to go more towards the cut off mal side to really look like working. Moving into cruising territory rather than expecting to lay down big turns on a very large area board.

Fish suit some people. I don't know if its a good step down but you may have a bit of fun if you don't mind pearling quite often on steeper take offs.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Beerfan » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:54 pm

I went from minimal to a fish, old School twin keels. Fucking loved it, still love keel fish. Paddled similar, caught waves similar, turned insane. Went from 7'6" x 21 1/2 x 2 3/4, to 6'2" x 22 x 3". Was too big, but the heavy glass job made up for that. All depends on how you want to surf. If you want to carve and drive, get a fish, if you want to rip n shred, get a chunky short board.

Beanpole
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Beanpole » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:15 pm

Yeah went from fish to a fat arsed roundtail quad and while its had its moments it just doesn't grab me the way the fish did. Really like the straightish rail line of a fish.
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Davros
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by Davros » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:51 am

I think fish need to smaller boards and unless you are pretty good as its tough to get the most out of them in good juicy surf 3ft up IMO, I reckon Beanpole is right about the MR's had a couple of 6'2's and they were like flatter standard shortboards, I reckon that would be a good 3rd board for you, more of a hybrid...hybrids are a general sensible choice for alot of guys, I am having a great time in Aut/winter on a shortboard (6'4) with some beef in it but soon as it turns mucky I'm straight back on the hybridish boards. I went through a phase trying to get good at riding a fish, I'm ordinary so trying to good at anything is tough but I found it restrictive after a while.

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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Post by alakaboo » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:56 am

I don't think fishes are great for taller people. I'm sure someone will post a link of a basketballer ripping, but to me the dimensions aren't in your favour. I also don't think traditional fishes really work above 5'10", but I like the look of the Puffer FIsh.

You didn't say if you were regular or goofy? If you are struggling to go left and you are a regular footer, then it is almost certainly technique. Backhand bottom turns are generally easier due to the leverage and positioning.

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