Cutbacks on a longboard

[Trev]

Sorry guys. been up at the Noosa Historic Hillclimb.
It's The Pass.
I've got a pic somewhere of my car in the car park (such as it was then) looking out over the water.
I'll see if I can find it.

[alakaboo]

67 was the start of 10 years of cyclone summers the likes of which haven't been seen since. I've got an inkling that'll change soon.

[offshore1]

^^^ educated guess.
It would have been unreal to have surfed Byron in '67 on that board of yours in a cyclone swell. Doesn't look too crowded.

I'll take my winnings in chips please.

[Nick Carroll]

So yeah anyway Buzzy.

Longboard cutbacks have an interesting technical history.

There's a great pic of Nat doing a cutback during the 66 world contest at Oceanside. It's a great pic not because of the quality (shithouse) or the wave (equally) but because Nat has squared himself against the rail in the turn.

The turn is a glimpse of the future -- of the turn later immortalised by Alby's movie poster, of MP, Nat's style progressive, leaning square to the rail and ripping a full cuttie down the wave face. The turn that launched a million carves.

See, much as it may be annoying to admit, a kernel of fact lies at the heart of Roy's earlier comment. The classic longboard, with its restrictive outline and clumsy semi-rocker, was never designed to perform rail turns. That's a huge reason why it was ripped apart so dramatically in the late 60s. Typically it was turned by setting it at an angle to the wave's curve, or lifting it out of the water around the fin seesaw style and re-setting it into a new trim line.

It didn't outrun the wave with any significant pace, and only needed to be slowed by a slight adjustment of trim position in order to just run along with whatever pace the wave dictated. It's no coincidence that the great classic longboard move, the hang ten, is a stalling move.

In this context, the "cutback" on a classic longboard was (and still is actually) performed in a short space and must be done quickly and sensitively, so as to re-set the trim line with minimal physical commitment to the turn. The way in which classical longboard stylists (guys of the Phil Edwards generation and beyond) got around this was with a "drop-knee" turn -- back foot weighted and set parallel to the stringer, upper body thus pivoting in the direction of the turn, shoulders open and body facing down the stringer.

It's a fascinating stance, the drop knee. Very close to a switchfoot. I reckon you should try that form on your longboard; back foot well back on the back fin and set parallel to the stringer, drop the knee down to the stringer, heel comes up off the deck, weight back, lift the front foot, swing from the tail, re-set. It feels insane. And while it doesn't lead to a satisfying foam bounce, mate the board is just not suited to that swooping full rail carve back and around, so don't force it. Nothing looks and feels more shit in any area of surfing technique than forcing it.

A little extra: drop knee style converts really well to super hi performance short board ripping. You'll see it in heaps of guys' backside bottom turns and yes, swooping cutties.

[Roy_Stewart]

The classic longboard, with its restrictive outline and clumsy semi-rocker, was never designed to perform rail turns. That's a huge reason why it was ripped apart so dramatically in the late 60s. Typically it was turned by setting it at an angle to the wave's curve, or lifting it out of the water around the fin seesaw style and re-setting it into a new trim line.

.

.... which is why it's not a longboard shape at all let alone a 'classic' one, and why another alternative for the questioner would be to get a board built which does rail turn and is a proper longboard shape.. the mal just isn't.


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[kayu]

Anyone that rides old heavy 60's boards will tell ya ----you can ride 10 dogs before you get one that "clicks". They are rare now and they were rare then. The good ones are magic......

[Trev]

^^^ educated guess.
It would have been unreal to have surfed Byron in '67 on that board of yours in a cyclone swell. Doesn't look too crowded.

I'll take my winnings in chips please.

Salt and vinegar??

[offshore1]

Salt and vinegar's fine.
Nice explanation Nick.

[Nick Carroll]

The classic longboard, with its restrictive outline and clumsy semi-rocker, was never designed to perform rail turns. That's a huge reason why it was ripped apart so dramatically in the late 60s. Typically it was turned by setting it at an angle to the wave's curve, or lifting it out of the water around the fin seesaw style and re-setting it into a new trim line.

.

.... which is why it's not a longboard shape at all let alone a 'classic' one, and why another alternative for the questioner would be to get a board built which does rail turn and is a proper longboard shape.. the mal just isn't.


.

Yes Roy that is why people went to short boards. They weren't totally sure of where it would lead but they knew they wanted to fit the wave better. Quite a few of the steps toward good shortboards were in effect re-designed longboards, with different outlines and new ideas about bottom shapes. But once that ball was rolling and people found they could actually surf the waves they'd been struggling with for years, the longboard was left behind.

I reckon the return of the longboard in the early 80s is also fascinating, in effect it began the whole process of recycling surfboard design, a much commented on but rarely examined feature of the past 30 years which I suspect has now pretty much run its course.

But that's off topic. Bit of an article idea but.

[Roy_Stewart]

True.

We can always rely on you to look at things objectively and in a well researched way.

The longboard hasn't been left behind in my camp though, I broke the simmons/mal mould a long time ago.

The entire surf industry is groaning under the amassed weight of its useless modernist assumptions, one of which of course is the idea that where longboards are concerned we have to eternally make a dysfunctional virtue out of a historical design error.

Postmodern surfing is where I'm at.

Bare essentials.

[steve shearer]

True.

We can always rely on you to look at things objectively and in a well researched way.

The longboard hasn't been left behind in my camp though, I broke the simmons/mal mould a long time ago.

The entire surf industry is groaning under the amassed weight of its useless modernist assumptions, one of which of course is the idea that where longboards are concerned we have to eternally make a dysfunctional virtue out of a historical design error.

Postmodern surfing is where I'm at.

Bare essentials.

I'm no particular fan of post-modernism Roy, and I think in your heart of hearts you aren't either.

There's more of the viking stern-ness and hardened steel in your rhetoric rather than some kind of contextualised Derridianism.

[Roy_Stewart]

Post modernism has much in common with antiquity going back to the roots of the matter, and discarding the unnecessary.

The surf industry reeks of modernism with its top heavy burden of social assumptions and global corporate control.

I'm not into it!

[Nick Carroll]

Post modernism has much in common with antiquity going back to the roots of the matter, and discarding the unnecessary.

Yeah right, it's just an excuse for smart arse Frenchmen to fcuk anything that moves...especially the new girl students.

I'm with shearer, view with caution and avoid stepping in if possible.

"The surf industry" might look like a monolith from Mt Maunganui Roy but really it's a lot of very disparate people and businesses doing all sorts of different things. There's a significant difference, say, between Gunther Rohn, whom I got to chat with yesterday at length about a range of things, and Neil Ridgway, whom I am about to chat to for a while about completely other things.

There would be a radical difference between both of those people and the guy who runs Cobra in Thailand. And so forth.

Your line of work doesn't rule out others' value by definition mate.

[Roy_Stewart]

[

"The surf industry" might look like a monolith from Mt Maunganui Roy but really it's a lot of very disparate people and businesses doing all sorts of different things.

Don't try to play the "I'm a man of the world you are a backwater dweller so I know and you don't" card with me 'mate'.

I know exactly what the surf industry is and pointing out that everyone in it isn't exactly the same is hardly enlightening and is insulting to the intelligence.

Naturally you will defend the industry, you are a part of it. That's why you will never get it.

There's a significant difference, say, between Gunther Rohn, whom I got to chat with yesterday at length about a range of things, and Neil Ridgway, whom I am about to chat to for a while about completely other things.

I don't know Rohn but Ridgeway is as thick as pigshit, he's a standard industry hack what is your point?

I think that you are just name dropping in the absence of anything sensible to say.

There would be a radical difference between both of those people and the guy who runs Cobra in Thailand. And so forth.

Mate let us cut through the crap for a minute and realise that there are an infinite number of differences and an infinite number of similarities between any two individuals.

The surf industry is a polycentric oligarchy, of course it exhibits variety.

Your line of work doesn't rule out others' value by definition mate.

Not one of your better phrases, if it means anything please clarify.


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[Roy_Stewart]

Post modernism has much in common with antiquity going back to the roots of the matter, and discarding the unnecessary.

I'm with shearer, view with caution and avoid stepping in if possible.

It's impossible for a surf industry inhabitant like yourself to understand post modernism in a surfing context, at least not without some seriously enlightening re education.

That's a good thing.
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[purple pyramids]

well fuck me!
roy, someone who hasn't managed to get his head around the death of the author, using "post-modernism" in a sentence.

[kayu]

Roy , your only involvement with "post-modernism" is as an internet linguistic term you recently became infatuated with ,because some person who is totally ignorant of surfing, wants to use your board as a prop for an art show......chin-up though , it might become as famous as a picture of some Hienz baked bean tins.........maybe......if you sell for your big price , then you can were berets and swap the beard for thin moustache, and you get to keep the silly pants..

[Roy_Stewart]

Incorrect