2007 Pipe Masters

[Nick Carroll]

ps i reckon andy irons is a tool, he loves himself.

Couldn't agree more, Lankster. Blue Horizon was is testiment to how much of a f.uck the guy is..... sore looser and a bad winner.

Spewin' he bumped Fanning down in the overal rankings. I hope fanning burns him next year.

You should not take Blue Horizon as an indicator of Andy. I'm truly amazed at how that movie tilted surfing public opinion against a bloke whose main crime seemed to be getting pissed off at the film maker. AI is a straight shooter.

That final yesterday was EPIC. Real life, it was un f**ken believable. Hundreds of professionals do it? yanks r us, buddy, that's a truly clueless thing to say. They can't. You'll count on one hand the number of heats in all of surfing history decided like that -- a 9.87 and 10 in the last six minutes. That's why K and A are the best show in the sport.

[Nick Carroll]

I agree that to some degree the scoring is rigged.

No it's not. Sorry. Just isn't.

[tootr]

some silly comments in this thread by my half baked opinion..

i'm not a big WCT /contest follower but the videos / footage i've seen, slater and irons are clearly a level above everybody else...

simple really...

[snakes]

But how could the judges not be biased towards their fav surfers?

Thats why they are judges. Because they can assess a ride & put personal opinion to the side whilst they are fulfilling their job.

[fong]

just a heads up too anyone who missed it live

http://www.smh.com.au/

if u scroll down theres a mad vidio link of the final

p.s i can't figure how post the exact link

[yanks r us]

I agree that to some degree the scoring is rigged.

No it's not. Sorry. Just isn't.

thats what you want to believe

[buzzy]

I can't speak for surf judges at an elite level, but I can speak for another elite judged sport. I know in that sport that judge bias is pretty much well accepted. That's not to suggest the judges are consciously biased, but they are biased toward familar athletes or (often) reward for past effort or even training performances. That's not to denigrate the judges at all, it's simply a feature (imho) of judges sports. That's why the IOC is typically opposed to admission of more judged sports to the Olympics.

I personally reckon Slater in particular benefits from this subconscious bias. One wave in particular will always stick in my mind for that, and that's the winning wave for Slater at JBay over AI in 2005. Way overscored. He seems to be more consistently overscored than other surfers. I'm not saying he's not fantastic, but simply that he benefits from some subconscious bias by judges.

For me though the surfer I most enjoy watching at the moment is Fanning. He just needs to ge more consistent.

[munch]

ummm, ks's backhand backdoor'ed pipe and got a 7.4

[ether]

But how could the judges not be biased towards their fav surfers?

Having some sort of a subtle subconscious bias toward a particular surfer is a long way from being 'rigged'.

There's always accusations of that kind of thing in a sport where the scoring is based on a judges' discretion. Arnie's Mr Olympia titles come to mind. People were convinced he was winning at the end of his career because he had such a high profile & because it was seen to be good for the sport.

I reckon 99% of the time it's just sour grapes on the part of the losing competitors.

Wasn't Kelly whinging about some of Andy's scores when he was winning the tour?

[yanks r us]

I can't speak for surf judges at an elite level, but I can speak for another elite judged sport. I know in that sport that judge bias is pretty much well accepted. That's not to suggest the judges are consciously biased, but they are biased toward familar athletes or (often) reward for past effort or even training performances. That's not to denigrate the judges at all, it's simply a feature (imho) of judges sports. That's why the IOC is typically opposed to admission of more judged sports to the Olympics.

I personally reckon Slater in particular benefits from this subconscious bias. One wave in particular will always stick in my mind for that, and that's the winning wave for Slater at JBay over AI in 2005. Way overscored. He seems to be more consistently overscored than other surfers. I'm not saying he's not fantastic, but simply that he benefits from some subconscious bias by judges.

For me though the surfer I most enjoy watching at the moment is Fanning. He just needs to ge more consistent.

exactly what i meant....

[fong]

ummm, ks's backhand backdoor'ed pipe and got a 7.4

yeah looking that wave i'd consider it a little underscored but it wasn't a set wave

don't judges kinda set there scale thu a final :?

i'd say andy won.....he seemed get the biggest/best waves and thats the secret too winning isn't it

p.s ever wondered wat it b like get non-surfers too judge

it just b interesting wat they would find as good or bad......could b a complete totally opposite of wat we consider right

[fong]

they'd probably score a 10' pencil drop quite high

mayb it's just me but the idea watching slater/lopez/bobby and iron go neck too neck doing pencil drops at sizable pipe would b fascinating viewing

till somewat got killed...than i'd feel like a git

i just got lot friends who don't surf....and it intrigues me how they rate waves and surfers it's a interesting perspective from outside the bubble

p.s and if u got some celebritys down too judge a expression session i think it boast a events publicy

ehhhh....sometimes i may think too much

[mad]

.s ever wondered wat it b like get non-surfers too judge

Somewhere in the distant past my foggy memory recalls Peter Drouyn set up a series of man on mans with MR using priests, artists etc. (non-surfers) to judge. Silly bugger still lost to MR.

The most outstanding thing was he took out whole page ads in tracks advocationg this challenge in nothing but his grungies.

The sad thing is I still remember this ad

[Nick Carroll]

wave for wave coverage of the final. judge for yourself .. i reckon andy's left was better than his right. from the side on angle you see him bouncing off the shockwave in the pit.

I agree. It should have been the 10. I was watching from the back angle where you can see the critical nature of the drop; Andy was at severe risk from the moment he began to paddle. The judges have a near front-on view from the left; they can't view the characteristics of the left face on takeoff, and the surfers always look deeper in Backdoors than they really are. This skews the judging at times toward BD.

The judges' view is one source of occasional judging inaccuracy, but doesn't count for much except at heavy places like Pipe, where guaranteed they'd give different scores from different angles.