why go so short?

Tribal discussion for shortboarders

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Hatchnam
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why go so short?

Post by Hatchnam » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:55 am

why go so short? is it really that necessary or beneficial? be that in tiny or mid ranged waves.

i'm not convinced about the 'new thing' of boards trending towards being shorter (i.e a 5'9 that's basically a 6'4 cut down but has the same volume etc)

why not just surf a longer board? it has more drive, more surface area, more projection thru turns, covers more ground... and is still loose enough to turn in small waves.

most of those boards look and surf like turds, and reckon most people would be better off just going back to surfing a board that's longer.
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Re: why go so short?

Post by Trev » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:18 pm

Merry Christmas, iggs.

BTW. I agree with you.

But then my shortest board is 8'6" :D
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Re: why go so short?

Post by Nick Carroll » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:39 pm

yeah I reckon they're on the way back up a bit.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Shorter boards, I find are much better and easier/ more responsive to turn in the pocket, and seem to fit into small barrels better, which up here in qld is a good thing for beachie days.

In saying that though, I'm not very extreme ... my everyday board is now a 5'10" which is only 2 inches shorter than what I was riding (6'0") before everyone started going super small. The 5'10" is the same width -- 19 1/2 -- but a 1/4 to 1/2 an inch thicker than the old 6-zero ...
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Re: why go so short?

Post by Hatchnam » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:42 pm

Fair play. I can appreciate why it could be ok to go a touch shorter , but lopping 8 inches to a foot off seems questionable if not pointless . In knee to chest high conditions or any wave that lacks punch , floatation speed gained thru increased volume alone should be enough to compensate . Also, what the Fks up with going so flat with the rocker and so heavy with the concave on those small wave boards ? Ur only going end up surfing flat and too far in front of the bowl, which will only comprise the boards ability to turn. Kinda defeats the purpose of going small . Wouldn't just a board of similar length and width to ur standard shorty be ideal for small stuff, but just thickened and foiled up like mad to give u the float speed and momentum work better ? Also wouldnt a vee bottom to keep the board sitting tight in the bowl with ready access to the steep climb line to get ur speed be better ? Bit of a rant, but the maths of this short wide flat as fk nonsense just don't add up to me. Evidenced by the amount of really shitty surfing that's frequently seen on those boards, and by people who would probably do a fk lot better by riding something other than.
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque
BA wrote:Dropped a frozen 20kg dog on it. The toe is starting to look like Peter Duttons head.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:24 pm

Yeah, well everything in moderation.

You don't see any of the really ridiculously short, wide, flat boards going rail to rail or vertical in the pocket unless a pro is riding them. They're all out on the wave face going past the wave's energy, which is why you see such shit surfing on them.

It's all good though. Let all the cool kids ride them and catch less waves.
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Re: why go so short?

Post by 8 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:30 pm

I got a baked potato a few months ago as a present - reckon its pretty bloody fun when it is smaller or full...super fast and gets me through fat sections way better than my normal shortboard would.

You ever given one a go hatchman?

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Re: why go so short?

Post by Trev » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:32 pm

8 wrote:I got a baked potato a few months ago as a present - reckon its pretty bloody fun when it is smaller or full...super fast and gets me through fat sections way better than my normal shortboard would.

You ever given one a go hatchman?
"8", that's NOT HatchMan.
It's HatchNam.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by Hatchnam » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Braithy wrote:You don't see any of the really ridiculously short, wide, flat boards going rail to rail or vertical in the pocket unless a pro is riding them. They're all out on the wave face going past the wave's energy, which is why you see such shit surfing on them.
Exactly. 90% of them are basically surfing bolt straight. A really bad version of Stand up bodyboarding at best. And no I haven't surfed a sweet potato . Seen lots of them being surfed and only once being surfed well
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Re: why go so short?

Post by Natho » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:00 pm

Depends what you mean by short. 2-3 inches shorter can make it easier to fit in the pocket in smaller waves. The board is more responsive and it can often mean an extra turn or two per wave. Too short and you have to basically surf the board like a skateboard and it can mean shorter more flicky turns and lack of drive. I think there is a healthy medium though.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by carlton St » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:10 pm

Everything old is new again. Call me cynical but I would call it marketing. Something new every few years gets us questioning common sense, you know better but you just have to try it. The oldies would remember 1970 World Titles, aussies did not do so well on short eggs, the yanks rode 7 footers with more flow. It saw the rise of the "speed" and "semi speed shapes" starting at 6'2" plus. It did go a bit far though, with all those 6'10" to 7'6" pintails lots of people were riding around 73 - 74. Going to the other extreme.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by Hatchnam » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:50 pm

2 to 3 inches shorter I do get . But this extreme reduction of length I don't get . Every shaper seems to be making a mole cricket model or some such . But by and large they look shit and surf shit . And could only perform in such small conditions , if at all well . Going a bit shorter works well sitting into the bowl and pocket on smaller waves , that's a given . But unless the wave is bowly from start to finish the reduction of length would mostly be a detriment when needing the extra drive surface area and rail length required when linking up deader flatter sections of waves .. My opinion based on simple experience observation and reasoning ... The prior comments would mirror this to an extent regarding the Aussies on small eggs bumming out against the yanks flowing on longer boards ..
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque
BA wrote:Dropped a frozen 20kg dog on it. The toe is starting to look like Peter Duttons head.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by Natho » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:45 pm

Well Hatchy often the lack of drive is made up by going flatter/ wider. Or you could say that by going flatter/ wider there is a need to go shorter to keep the board more responsive. Chicken and egg.

I sense you are referring to some of the ultra short mini Simmons rip off type 'stuff' that is being flogged out there? That sort of thing?
Well if the punters buy into it then I say good luck to em. Whatever floats the boat. Watch clips of those boards being surfed and make up your own mind. I think I'm with you on this to a degree, however if people enjoy riding them then let em go for it. People like you and myself just won't be buying into it ourselves. I just think that people riding those ultra flat and short boards often get a sense they are surfing those boards way better than they really are. It's like if the board is going fast then they must be surfing well. Whatever.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by swvic » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:44 pm

Natho wrote:It's like if the board is going fast then they must be surfing well. Whatever.
You just knocked the nail in with one hit

Have a look at competent surfers. Now have a close look at really good surfers. The really good surfer has LESS outright speed (barrels excepted), but their turns are amazingly quick. To enable it, they often deliberately hang at the bottom before a turn. At the same time equivalent, the lesser surfer is out on the shoulder

Personally, despite trying to coach myself to surf tighter, I'm too often out on the fcuken shoulder and using that speed for a cuttie after missing the lip, snap or tube. Fortunately, a well executed cuttie can sometimes make me feel I can surf ok
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Re: why go so short?

Post by 8 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:47 pm

I reckon you should give one of them a good bash before you pass judgement - I was pretty sceptical on them myself to start with. Not boards for all conditions but IMHO they make some average conditions enjoyable.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by Hatchnam » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:01 am

look 8, i'm sure it'd probably go ok on certain waves. and i'm sure u have fun on it.

but on the whole, i'm not convinced that those dumpy little models are going to be any more suited to small/tiny waves than just keeping to a reasonable length and adding the extra volume (foil/thickness throughout from nose to tail) to serve the purpose.

as an example, my 'small wave board' is a standard shortboard outline, roundtail, low/moderate rocker, but super thick (almost 3 inches) and foiled up thru the nose and tail. it floats, and powers thru tiny junk. and it still turns tight, top-to-bottom over and over in knee-waist high waves, and glides over flat-dead sections. and much better than any of the dedicated small wave boards i've tried before.

i've just observed lots of really bad surfing on those type of 'small wave' boards since they've been the 'new thing'..
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque
BA wrote:Dropped a frozen 20kg dog on it. The toe is starting to look like Peter Duttons head.

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Re: why go so short?

Post by bondihq » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:50 pm

ive been riding a 5'8 hypto krypto for the last coupla months , by far the shortest board ive ever ridden , in fact i was rather hesitant in buying it for that reason , but i feel ive never been surfing better - the speed i get from it is , i think , amazing. I'm not sure i want to go back to my standard 6'2's ive always ridden....maybe i'm in the honeymoon stage of ownership , but fark me , ive never enjoyed surfing so much......

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Re: why go so short?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:58 pm

Yeah, that good huh?

I was looking at a 5'8" hypto and nearly bought it. The 5'10" just looks too wide, but I thought the 5'8" was gonna be too extreme.

I still don't think I've met anyone say the hypto is a bad board.
steve shearer wrote:
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You are both absorbing salt and urinating.

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