Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

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kookster
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Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by kookster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:51 am

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt32 ... G_0335.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt32 ... G_0344.jpg

OK so after two months surfing this board (on left of pic) with both quad and thruster setups here goes my thoughts.

Keep in mind the shaper will have kittens doing this review as the board was always meant to be a grovel board, and I've been trying it in everything up to shoulder Fiji reef breaks and even bigger lumpy Sunny Coast beach breaks. It's not what the intended purpose was, but I see this plan shape as exaggerating everything I'm trying to find out.

Thruster has a "softer" feel, it's hard to explain but it maybe could also be explained as less precise or maybe even less tracky... but under your feet it feels softer, and that creates a "slower" feeling.

Further to that, I'm not sure thruster is "slower" but the extra precise feel of the quad I reckon mimics that of when a thruster is going faster, that feeling when everything "locks in" and you are flying. With the quad this locked in feeling happens at a lower speed, therefore this may give the impression of going faster.

There is some cause to think the extra fin surface makes you sit a tad higher in the wall of the wave, therefore giving more speed from gravity, therefore they may indeed be faster.

The reason I think this last comment is the most accurate is from recent experience surfing bigger waves on the 6'3, it tends to stay higher on the wall unless you drive it to the bottom, and there seems to be a lot more speed. I don't reckon the "board is faster" I think the "setup is faster" due to where it sits on the wave face. Someone else wrote "a quad rewards taking a high line" and I think that's pretty apt.

I have absolutely no doubt I now know what "more drive from a quad" and "more pivot from a thruster" means.

The main drama I've had with the quad setup on the little board is backhand. I just cannot get the bastard to snap off the top backside when I've got even moderate speed up, but in thruster I can. Whether it's been pure coincidence that I'm standing on the tail in the correct spot or whether in time I could adjust my style to get the tail to come around better in quad I don't know.

So far I've had single foiled 5s in the front the whole time. All rear fins have been double foiled. I've tried 3s in the rear as quad, 3 in rear as thruster and a 7 in the rear as thruster. If anything the 7 in the rear "hooks/pivots/turns" even better and I haven't really felt it is overfinned. However I have buried the nose/shoulder on drops a couple of times with the 7 which wasn't happening with the 3 but wave shape was completely different as well.

What I want to explore next is whether sharing the fin area between the rear quad plugs and the thruster (so a five-fin setup) gives me the best of both worlds or just makes the fins fight each other.

Or perhaps even smaller quad fins all round, with a 5 in the thruster slot or something.

I may even be trying to achieve something this plan shape simply was not built for, but I'd like to see how far I can push the argument before I decide what board should fill in the hole between the two boards.

I haven't tried the 6'3 (on right of pic) as a thruster yet. I have been so stoked on the extra hold, precision etc I am getting from the narrowed McKee setup that I haven't wanted to try anything else. I will be doing it though as I want to know how much the tail shape and contours are doing and how much of that is fins.

Would appreciate any help with what to try next with fins.
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Natho
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Natho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:39 pm

Hard to say for sure but just looking at the images the plan shape of the small board might have more to do with why you are having issues on your backhand??

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by kookster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Thnaks for the response Natho but as I've said the issue pretty much goes away in thruster format. To explain further, backside in quad it gets to a certain point in the backhand snap turn, refuses to go around any further and rider despatched in direction of the intended snap, almost like the fins turn to a point, then start fighting each other and go straight. :-) With thruster the tail seems to come around to complete the turn. Doesn't feel like "release" as much as it does "pivot". But I do like where the quad fins have me placed on the face of most waves to take advantage of what little size there is, hence trying to remedy the turn issue without losing the quad benefits. Hope that makes a tad more sense...
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by swvic » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:36 pm

Sorry to side track the thread kookster as I'm keen to read opinions

Natho, a query for you. Understand where you're coming from re the planshape comment, but I'm blown away by the level of surfing being done on Simmons variants. Forehand, backhand, top to bottom, drawn out carves and even tube riding. Is it the quality of the riders or do these boards lend themselves to the average punter as a replacement for the standard thruster?
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Natho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:03 pm

Well I have not seen as much ripping on the Simmons style of board as yourself so hard to comment.The whole Simmons thing has not really interested me that much.Possibly another bit of a fad?Who knows but good surfers can often rip on anything so just coz a good surfer rips on a certain board does not mean that board is suited to the average punter, not that I think that is what you saying.Im certainly no expert on Simmons because as said Simmons, finless and all that jazz just does not interest me.Not that there is anything wrong with riding one.Whatever floats ones boat.

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by swvic » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:37 pm

Cheers, Natho. Ripping I've seen is mostly from vids and stills. Fully with you about the capacity of really good surfers to make anything look good and following like a sheep is not the answer for most. But we've got pridmore, feral dave, dan thompson and others having some real belief, albeit to varying wave conditions. There's a part of me wants to try these things, but where I am there's virtually no test boards available and I'm not about to fork out the dollars without having some idea of what I'd be getting. For now, it's the thruster
marcus wrote:and that vicco dude, whatsisname?

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Natho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:54 pm

It was interesting while in Hawaii I did not noticed anyone riding anything other than HPS thrusters. The exception was one guy out of Honolua Bay on a fishy thruster, but while he surfed it fairly well it was racing ahead on the wave a fair bit causing him to miss the best sections. I thought I would have at least seen a few quads.

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by swvic » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:10 pm

Had one quad. Took a bit to get the fin setup dialed. Snapped it and got on a thruster which felt like coming home

Now, if people can please concentrate on kookster's request
marcus wrote:and that vicco dude, whatsisname?

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Donweather » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:11 pm

Ummmmm, I'm assuming you've asked Mark first for his advice....being the shaper and all. Mark helped me out immensely with fin recommendations when my Quadfather felt too stiff for my liking. Now, after swapping the front fins for K2.1s (as recommended by Mark), it turns/pivots like a dream!!! :D

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by steve shearer » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:13 pm

v much agree.
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by crabmeat thompson » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:45 pm

Yeah, MP knows his stuff with fins. Helped me enormously.

My dumpling went best for me with MR twins up front and two rear stabilisers. She flew, you could pump and drive it through deadsections and whip & snap it around in the pocket.
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by kookster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:51 pm

Yes I have asked Mark of course, and have done what he said, which is where I'm currently at, but was also looking for some more education from the wider community without hassling him every time I want to ask one question after another. I'm sure Mark would be the first to say what works for one guy doesn't work for another so was getting others' impressions.

Braithy can you explain rear stabilisers a bit more please. You mean just stubby keels rather than full fins? I assume this type of setup would work more because fins are releasing, rather than the board "turning"? Same effect so it's something I might try.
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channels
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by channels » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:21 pm

Here's what I don't get and unless I just haven't ridden the right quad yet...it's a quad and it has a bunch of benefits over thrusters and also deficiencies compared to thrusters. You wouldn't expect a twinnie or a single fin to perform like a thruster so why the expectation that a quad will?

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Natho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Kookster I reckon the whole fin thing can be one big mind fuschia.I agree that changing fins can help tweak a board to a degree, but I am also mindful that changing up fins does not suddenly result in the huge performance lift that the fin companies will have you believe.Plus who has the cash to keep buying different fins for the huge outlay being asked for em retail.

I've settled on the simple process that I try a standard set of fins in a new board.For a standard thruster for me it would be PC 5s or similar.If the board has issues with those standard fins I know it's pretty much the board not the fins.It may be the rocker, plan shape or something else.I could try different fins till the cows come home but fins are not going to fix a board issue.Now if the board goes well with standard fins and everything feels ok, I might then tweak fins slightly.Once I find a good match I leave the fins in and I'm done.
I think people sometimes think that changing fins will fix an issue which is really more of an actual board issue.Quads are even more of a mind fuschia but for me if my standard quad fins did not work it was more often the board not the fins.

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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by kookster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:22 pm

Clay, not really trying to get it to go like a thruster. I want the benefits of a quad with a little more pivot from my current setup, and riding it as a thruster was to prove to myself what the effect was. Seeing how people have found it works for them to achieve it. As I've spelled out above I'm trying to learn about what works and what achieves what and I was hoping I'd accelerate the process somewhat by asking a surfing community about surfing.

Not a broadside at Clay but I seem to be one of the few people who've actually ridden the same board in thruster and quad and am trying (in vain it seems) to report back on the differences and get some feedback on what to try next.

RS seems to discuss everything from bestiality to who to vote for at the next election but SFA about actual surfing at times.
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by Cuttlefish » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:32 pm

But...it does depend upon how much variation you have in the board shapes you are riding.
If your quiver consists of very similar boards going up in 2" increments then sure the fins will be less of a minefield.
My quiver has a diverse range of board dims/planshapes and fin set ups.
I have one quad which has the McKee plug set up which I put a set of DVS fins (rated for 65-75 kg riders) in and sure enough it was sliding in 3' plus waves.
Ran a set of Stretch quad fins it it and still plenty of hold at 5' plus.
Put the same DVS fins into another board with quad plugs more rail centric (rears closer to rails than McKee) and the fins held in beautifully in 6' waves.
When you can get those results it's worth some experimentation.
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by jimmy » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:41 pm

And by the way. Do you know how awesome Marks website is looking now?
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Re: Quad / Thruster ride report - fin advice needed

Post by channels » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:11 pm

kookster wrote:Clay, not really trying to get it to go like a thruster. I want the benefits of a quad with a little more pivot from my current setup, and riding it as a thruster was to prove to myself what the effect was. Seeing how people have found it works for them to achieve it. As I've spelled out above I'm trying to learn about what works and what achieves what and I was hoping I'd accelerate the process somewhat by asking a surfing community about surfing.

Not a broadside at Clay but I seem to be one of the few people who've actually ridden the same board in thruster and quad and am trying (in vain it seems) to report back on the differences and get some feedback on what to try next.

RS seems to discuss everything from bestiality to who to vote for at the next election but SFA about actual surfing at times.


Misunderstood the point of your first post...read this bit

kookster wrote:The main drama I've had with the quad setup on the little board is backhand. I just cannot get the bastard to snap off the top backside when I've got even moderate speed up, but in thruster I can. Whether it's been pure coincidence that I'm standing on the tail in the correct spot or whether in time I could adjust my style to get the tail to come around better in quad I don't know.


and assumed that the crux of the post was that you couldn't get thruster style turns out of a quad. Although do agree the planshape of the smaller one doesn't look like it lends itself to backhand snaps, surprised to hear it does when in a thruster config....

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