Jumping from a quad to a thruster

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by crabmeat thompson » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:15 am

It was a 6'1" roundtail quad. 19 1/2 wide by 2 3/8 thick. It was an all rounder type of board, mid rails, nice little nose lift on it canceled out the extra width.

I think, but not 100% sure, it had M5 fins up front and smaller at the back ... but this is just going from a quick look while I was putting on the leggie and getting don to the water.

I just found it difficult, bordering on impossible, to turn it 180 degrees off the lip. It just bogged, felt like the fins weren't releasing.

The board itself felt like it'd be a ripper if set up as a thruster. Paddled well, fast over dead sections, freakish straight line speed. Just no turning ability which I blamed on the extra fin?!!
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Davros » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:47 am

Slater was riding quads at Chopes yeah to take the highest line possible...when that clown GT interviewed him after a heat he criticised an attemped turn by Slater and was blaming the quad set up, Slater looked at him like "WTF are you questioning my board selection you kook" and passed it off as the wave was over...which it was......so Slater staying with quads when required...

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:55 pm

Braithy wrote:It was a 6'1" roundtail quad. 19 1/2 wide by 2 3/8 thick. It was an all rounder type of board, mid rails, nice little nose lift on it canceled out the extra width.

I think, but not 100% sure, it had M5 fins up front and smaller at the back ... but this is just going from a quick look while I was putting on the leggie and getting don to the water.

I just found it difficult, bordering on impossible, to turn it 180 degrees off the lip. It just bogged, felt like the fins weren't releasing.

The board itself felt like it'd be a ripper if set up as a thruster. Paddled well, fast over dead sections, freakish straight line speed. Just no turning ability which I blamed on the extra fin?!!
Thats interesting, not the same as my experience with round-tail quads that have planshape and rocker curve to turn off. M5 is a pretty big fin for a quad in my opinion though, especially if the rear fin was M3. I've tried that combo before in a very similar sounding board and it was stupidly stiff. I usually ride either M3 or the upright KFin (the old black one thats smaller than the K2.1) in front and G1000 in the rear. Seeing as you're adding so much more fin area with the 4th fin, I drop the size of all fins right down and make sure the rears are slightly smaller than the fronts.

I find its the fin area of the rear fins that effects pivot the most. Too big and it'll be very hard to pivot off the top.

For comparison, I switched back and forth between my 5'11" round-tail quad Swinger (McKee placement) and a typical low volume thruster. I noticed a small increase in pivot and fraction faster turn response in the thruster, but it was comparable with the quad. They could both draw very similar lines, hooking in the pocket, snapping up in the lip, fin release through hard cutbacks or late execution of reo's.

I reckon its worth another try :)
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Natho » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:56 pm

well chopes is well suited to quads so it makes sense. Better hold into the wave face and not much need for top to bottom turning.
Also depends who you talk to. I have it from a very good source that Slater is possibly a bit over the whole quad thing , however he will still ride them to change things up and continue to challenge himself with different set ups and designs.


The best surfing he has ever done have been on his normal length thrusters around the 6'1 mark.
It would be interesting if he does go back to 6'1 thrusters to see if the whole quad and going short fad will die out?

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:37 pm

Natho wrote:well chopes is well suited to quads so it makes sense. Better hold into the wave face and not much need for top to bottom turning.
Also depends who you talk to. I have it from a very good source that Slater is possibly a bit over the whole quad thing , however he will still ride them to change things up and continue to challenge himself with different set ups and designs.


The best surfing he has ever done have been on his normal length thrusters around the 6'1 mark.
It would be interesting if he does go back to 6'1 thrusters to see if the whole quad and going short fad will die out?
I reckon his best surfing has been on his recent 5'9"s. He looks like he can fit tighter turns into smaller places to me with those boards. I like that he still surfs them in the bigger stuff too, its good proof stubby boards can be versatile.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by dUg » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:49 pm

Cpt.Caveman wrote:
Braithy wrote:It was a 6'1" roundtail quad. 19 1/2 wide by 2 3/8 thick. It was an all rounder type of board, mid rails, nice little nose lift on it canceled out the extra width.

I think, but not 100% sure, it had M5 fins up front and smaller at the back ... but this is just going from a quick look while I was putting on the leggie and getting don to the water.

I just found it difficult, bordering on impossible, to turn it 180 degrees off the lip. It just bogged, felt like the fins weren't releasing.

The board itself felt like it'd be a ripper if set up as a thruster. Paddled well, fast over dead sections, freakish straight line speed. Just no turning ability which I blamed on the extra fin?!!
Thats interesting, not the same as my experience with round-tail quads that have planshape and rocker curve to turn off. M5 is a pretty big fin for a quad in my opinion though, especially if the rear fin was M3. I've tried that combo before in a very similar sounding board and it was stupidly stiff. I usually ride either M3 or the upright KFin (the old black one thats smaller than the K2.1) in front and G1000 in the rear. Seeing as you're adding so much more fin area with the 4th fin, I drop the size of all fins right down and make sure the rears are slightly smaller than the fronts.

I find its the fin area of the rear fins that effects pivot the most. Too big and it'll be very hard to pivot off the top.

For comparison, I switched back and forth between my 5'11" round-tail quad Swinger (McKee placement) and a typical low volume thruster. I noticed a small increase in pivot and fraction faster turn response in the thruster, but it was comparable with the quad. They could both draw very similar lines, hooking in the pocket, snapping up in the lip, fin release through hard cutbacks or late execution of reo's.

I reckon its worth another try :)
I'll put in a vote for the k2.1's in front as well, (but I'm a big fan of the small tipped TC Whiteline and Aqualine fins as well) with GL trailers ( rail style quad ). Goes as vert as my fave thruster does, just seems to take a different path to get there. The extra hold has also helped me take off deeper on my backhand, and that has then mapped back to what I do on my three fin boards.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:15 am

Braithy wrote:It was a 6'1" roundtail quad. 19 1/2 wide by 2 3/8 thick. It was an all rounder type of board, mid rails, nice little nose lift on it canceled out the extra width.

I think, but not 100% sure, it had M5 fins up front and smaller at the back ... but this is just going from a quick look while I was putting on the leggie and getting don to the water.

I just found it difficult, bordering on impossible, to turn it 180 degrees off the lip. It just bogged, felt like the fins weren't releasing.
There's a lot of crap four-fins out there. They do take work and the design inherently does not enjoy semi vertical top turns, after all its fundamental gig is straight line speed (down the face and down the line) and rail hold.

If you want them to get close to a thruster's overall turn range then you've got to do a lot of careful tinkering with fin position and size, outline curve toward the tail etc etc -- months of effort even for a surfer with unlimited design resources at his disposal. Or alternatively, get pretty lucky with your choices.

From what I've seen in the generic lineup, most guys are going too big with the overall fin set on quads, perhaps out of uncertainty. I've got to say I don't know a single one of my normally skilled surfing mates who's benefited much from riding one -- other than to give 'em a heightened appreciation of three fins! But I'm not surfing a lot of pointbreaks the way shearer does, say.

I don't really get your concerns with extra weight from a fifth plug set Braithy, you're talking about something that adds maybe 40-50grams and probably (if it's the centre set) takes out close to that much of stringer weight in any case.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by crabmeat thompson » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:53 am

Nick Carroll wrote:There's a lot of crap four-fins out there. They do take work and the design inherently does not enjoy semi vertical top turns, after all its fundamental gig is straight line speed (down the face and down the line) and rail hold.

If you want them to get close to a thruster's overall turn range then you've got to do a lot of careful tinkering with fin position and size, outline curve toward the tail etc etc -- months of effort even for a surfer with unlimited design resources at his disposal. Or alternatively, get pretty lucky with your choices.

From what I've seen in the generic lineup, most guys are going too big with the overall fin set on quads, perhaps out of uncertainty. I've got to say I don't know a single one of my normally skilled surfing mates who's benefited much from riding one -- other than to give 'em a heightened appreciation of three fins! But I'm not surfing a lot of pointbreaks the way shearer does, say.

I don't really get your concerns with extra weight from a fifth plug set Braithy, you're talking about something that adds maybe 40-50grams and probably (if it's the centre set) takes out close to that much of stringer weight in any case.
Thanks for the reply NC ... You make some good points about guys you know that haven't benefitted much from riding a quad. I think I might be in the same boat. Sure given time on riding a quad, it might change the way I ride a wave. Less snaps and more drawn out lines. But I really aren't bored of riding waves the way I do. So probably no need to change a thing.

I think I was looking to see if its possible to get the quads straight line speed and rail holding ability in hollow waves and morph it with the tight pocket turns, rail to rail surfing I can get out of my thruster & MR twin.

As far as the weight thing ... It wasn't a big huge deal, it was just something I noticed doing the ole under the arm test. I kind of wanted to hold the board further back as the balance wasn't like my lightweight twin or all rounder tri fin.

Incidentally, NC you ever ridden a Merrick 'Fred Rubble' in your testing? I'm looking at one online. Perfect Dims for me seems to have the volume right up to the nose and out to the rails. Looks like it'd go, but I hear there's alotta CI boards that are hit & miss depending on how an individual surfs.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by crabmeat thompson » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:55 am

Nick Carroll wrote:There's a lot of crap four-fins out there. They do take work and the design inherently does not enjoy semi vertical top turns, after all its fundamental gig is straight line speed (down the face and down the line) and rail hold.

If you want them to get close to a thruster's overall turn range then you've got to do a lot of careful tinkering with fin position and size, outline curve toward the tail etc etc -- months of effort even for a surfer with unlimited design resources at his disposal. Or alternatively, get pretty lucky with your choices.

From what I've seen in the generic lineup, most guys are going too big with the overall fin set on quads, perhaps out of uncertainty. I've got to say I don't know a single one of my normally skilled surfing mates who's benefited much from riding one -- other than to give 'em a heightened appreciation of three fins! But I'm not surfing a lot of pointbreaks the way shearer does, say.

I don't really get your concerns with extra weight from a fifth plug set Braithy, you're talking about something that adds maybe 40-50grams and probably (if it's the centre set) takes out close to that much of stringer weight in any case.
Thanks for the reply NC ... You make some good points about guys you know that haven't benefitted much from riding a quad. I think I might be in the same boat. Sure given time on riding a quad, it might change the way I ride a wave. Less snaps and more drawn out lines. But I really aren't bored of riding waves the way I do. So probably no need to change a thing.

I think I was looking to see if its possible to get the quads straight line speed and rail holding ability in hollow waves and morph it with the tight pocket turns, rail to rail surfing I can get out of my thruster & MR twin.

As far as the weight thing ... It wasn't a big huge deal, it was just something I noticed doing the ole under the arm test. 5 sets of plugs compared to three seemed to make a difference, but maybe it was more of a mental one looking at 5 ugly plugs?!! I kinda wanted to hold the board further back as the balance wasn't like my lightweight twin or all rounder tri fin.

Incidentally, NC you ever ridden a Merrick 'Fred Rubble' in your testing? I'm looking at one online. Perfect Dims for me seems to have the volume right up to the nose and out to the rails. Looks like it'd go, but I hear there's alotta CI boards that are hit & miss depending on how an individual surfs
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by steve shearer » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 pm

Obviously NC is entitled to his opinion...........

But......


I read this , and previous comments by Natho (who is obviously connected to people in the surfboard manufacturing game...and nothing wrong with that).....as well as observing the slight but very noticeable irritation with which Jimmy Slade fielded questions on the four-fin affair that there is some kind of quad backlash occurring..

As to who is orchestrating this backlash and why....when a surfer at the top of his game, and with arguably more surfboard design knowledge than any other in history..continues to choose to ride them and demonstrate mastery in surf ranging from perfect 10 foot tubes to 2ft slop, beating the best in the world via tube-riding, aerials and turns......well that is a question which we will all have to ruminate over.

I suggest no conspiracy but merely ask that people look at the evidence in front of their own eyes.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by alakaboo » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:15 pm

Briathy, if you like the twin, maybe try really small (sidebite) trailers in the quad.

Steve, did you check out KS's 5 fin boards? Seems in images like his rail fins are much more parallel to the stringer than most.
He's been known to keep the side fins in and change only his back fin dependent on the surf break, even in his thrusters. Presume he's doing the same in his quads, and has worked out a good centre set for each break.

And didn't you say yourself a while back that in small beachbreaks you preferred thrusters?

To head off the conspiracy theorists, I have 2 thrusters, a quad and two 2+1s. Next board will be either a single, a quad or a twin. I'll ride whatever I think will be most fun on the day.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by swvic » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:51 pm

Just snapped a quad and will be replacing it with a thruster. Quad: Bourton Silver Bullet 6'2 20'1/4" 27/16". Need: Pushing 50, shit shoulder so wanted extra volume and something that would surf seemingly without that extra volume.

Yeah, I know bumfluff "jimmy1501 wrote:
Or you could not be a kook and get paddle fit. That's what it's all about sister. If you surf enough you don't need a mong board that paddles like a mal and surfs like a Parko.

Check in again in a few years, mate.

Was pretty happy with the quad after getting fin setup right which took a couple of months. Murray reckoned it'd go up to 6 foot but it got a bit too loose off the bottom in waves that size, particularly on the backhand. Wierd thing is, it never span out, I just couldn't rely on aiming for the top because I had to control it at the bottom first. This could be either: me; the possibility that what I call a 6 foot wave is bigger than what Murray calls a 6 ft wave; or Vic waves have more juice per foot compared to Qld. Whatever the reason, now that it needs replacing, it will be 3 fins. The day I broke the quad was recently in Samoa. Immediately surfed a 6'6" thruster and it felt great, even if it was a bit long for the waves. Sure, I could get a tweaked quad, but the thought of going through the fin setup again puts me off a bit. So it's a slightly beefed up thruster that I know will handle 6 ft no worries.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:50 pm

steve shearer wrote:Obviously NC is entitled to his opinion...........

But......
Yeah perhaps I could get a bit clearer, I wasn't talking about fcuken psycho boy -- he has spent a lot of time and tinkering to get his boards where he wants 'em as per the original comment above, and they don't look much like what Braithy was describing.

Likewise little brother has numerous quads, has chucked a lot of 'em in the process of getting them right, but rides the ones he likes beautifully. Mostly in barrel type situations.

But as mentioned I've noticed a lot of my more normal surfing mates haven't had a lot of success with 'em -- possibly because they don't have the time or design nouse or cash to hoe through 10 or so boards and find what will work for them, maybe because much of the time they're surfing beachies with a tendency to enjoy vertical turns and pocket snap type moves, or maybe in some cases because they just don't like the feel.

They're a hard design to flirt with is what I am saying.

Braithy nah never tried a Rubble.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by steve shearer » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:57 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
They're a hard design to flirt with is what I am saying.
Which brings us very naturally at this time of day to the question of the Monster girls.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by crabmeat thompson » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:04 pm

ˆˆˆ

This thread is about to head into golden point.
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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Natho » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:32 pm

Steve, for the record while I may know people in the surfboard game (as Im sure most on here do) I certainly have no commercial interest in the industry whatsoever. My comments are based on my own experience and passion.
The whole quad thing started for me about 8 years or so ago. Its done a full circle for me. While Ive ridden some fun quads, I would say out of the many quads Ive ridden 95% of them had issues that outweighed any benefits. The few quads I did like were designed to closely refelect the aspects of a thruster. And in the end I thought whats the point in going for a quad that surfs like a thruster. I may as well just ride a thruster and save the extra fin. hence Ive done a full circle back to the trusted thruster.
That said I do still have a quad in my quiver which I ride from time to time.
Im not sure about a 'backlash' against quads. If you quickly skim these forums one might come to the conclusion there is a backlash against the thruster amongst regular posters. I just think there is plenty of miss information and I like to see a bit of balance. To me there is far more to a board than just speed and hold. No point to me in going fast if you can't turn properly. Turning a board is so important and to me that's where a quad can have hang ups. Though there are plenty on here who love the speed and hold of a quad. To me if I want extra speed then as an example I can just get the rocker tweeked on my thruster. As for hold,well I don't find any issues with hold given the type of waves we get on Australia's east coast 80% of the time. Its all personal and we all surf differently. One thing I think we all agree on is that the best board is the one you have the most fun on. Its all only opinion and personal experiences and no one is right or wrong.
I certainly don't buy the whole Kelly rides em so they must be good arguement. Kelly is at a stage in his career where he needs to challenge himself with all aspects of surfing including board design, and he is prepared to take risks outside of the 'norm'. He can. He has achieved most of what he could in his career to date. Meanwhile the majority of the tour ride thrusters most of the time. Most of them have already tried the quad thing. Kelly also rips on a twinnie and could easily win heats on one as well. The bloke can rip on anything. But I still say his best surfing has been on his standard thrusters.
Now if the majority of the tour all started surfing quads most of the time in heats. Then that might be saying something. Then who cares. Its whatever floats your boat.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:06 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Nick Carroll wrote:
They're a hard design to flirt with is what I am saying.
Which brings us very naturally at this time of day to the question of the Monster girls.
Fcuk, did you worry about them? I did. I kept thinking they might catch a cold.

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Re: Jumping from a quad to a thruster

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:21 am

Tis an interesting discussion/argument.

As always its back to the same ethos for me, surfing is for fun, and its best (for me anyway) to pick my boards based on how much fun I have on them. Fun is sometimes wanting a high-per board for close pocket attack, and sometimes fun is riding a board that requires a different approach or offers something different to the others.

I wonder whether there are a lot of people out there who have tried badly shaped quads or quads not suited to how they like to surf, and write off the fact that it has four fins. Rather than writing off the overall balance of elements in the board, fin placement, number of fins, and fin choice being some aspects of that balance, writing off quads in general and never having any interest in them again.

I say, if you're going to test out a quad, ride one by someone known to be a good quad shaper and also a board that is shaped specifically to be surfed as a quad. Then, make sure you try some different fin combos because the fin combination needed for quads often differs from what people prefer on a thruster (usually smaller fins in general, more upright front fins, plus smaller rear fins compared to front).

If you've tried both and still don't like them, we'll you've give them a chance.
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