Forefronts of board design

[Cpt.Caveman]

What are some thoughts that people have about new forefronts in board design? Whats good? Whats bad? Whats interesting? What have you found to work well for you? What construction material do you think has promise (e.g. wooden boards)?

I've been getting pretty excited about board design recently after reading the current Surfing World issue that talks a lot about board design.

They brought up an interesting point, that the design of the average shortboard for the recreational surfer might be based a little too much on the ultra low volume, highly refined pro surfer's board. Related to this, that a lot of shapers haven't been spending much time trying to innovate something new and different, because the panacea in most people's mind seems to be the high performance thruster.

This seems to be changing a little at the moment, with the revival of quads and the twinny.

Some boards to start off some discussion:

- Lost, Round Nose Quad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0kRuBIT ... re=related

- Burton, Fat Bullet - http://www.basesurfboards.com/board_detail/show/id/56

- Webber, Mini-Fish Twinny - http://www.mesurf.com.au/ProductDetail.aspx?id=309

- Kelly's new 5'4" Quad that he seems to have faith in as a performance board.


I was out at South Curly today for a surf, and some young kid had a very short round nose quad, similar to what Kelly's looked like. I get the feeling that these ultra small quads might become more popular?

[Jimi]

Like the look of them all, the webber sounds too good to be true.
I find myself reaching for my fat-bat for most conditions now, and more standard shorty quad when the waves get a bit better. They're great fun to ride.

I think these type of boards are going to keep getting more popular, fun, easier to paddle in and easier to surf in a wide variety of conditions. It'll be interesting to see a range of different materials becoming more available

[pinhead]

I'm most interested in the Griffin 5 fin Modfish. Check:

http://griffinsurfboards.com/modfish-reviews.html

[Cpt.Caveman]

5 fin? Wouldn't the middle fin make it more like a thruster, loosing the drive that you would get from a quad set-up?

Thats assuming that the absence of the middle fin is part of what gives more drive - less drag. I may have misunderstood the physics of the twinny and quad however.

[pinhead]

It's the extra fin area on the rail that gives twins, old school fishes and quads speed in trim. Griffin puts his rail fins really close to the rails on wide tails, I guess the centre fin helps the board go rail to rail with out drifting but not really sure of the theory behind the design. The boards look a bit odd - but every review I've seen of them is the same - riders are blown away by the performance, just Google Griffin modfish review.

[Nick Carroll]

I have a pretty crazy board right now, made by Maurice Cole. 5'11", outline thrown forward into the nose, pulled to a moon tail. Super deep single concave beginning about 6" back and peaking just ahead of the front fin set, there's gotta be nearly an inch of concave at its peak. Centre line of the board from front foot to tail is pretty much dead straight -- even a tiny fraction of convex in front of the fins. Concave bleeds out via a spine-type vee behind the back fin. RedX fin set with back fin slightly bigger than the two forward. Two thick single-wood stringers lined up with the side fin boxes, converging slightly toward the nose. EPS foam epoxy resin 4x4oz glass.

Basically this is a bleed-over from towboard design. The super concave provides colossal lift; the twin stringers provide ultra stiffness and certainty in turns at speed (the board doesn't flex more than absolutely necessary); the vee spine provides extreme back end release. The bigger back fin setup is necessary simply to control the board at speed.

Board is suited to solid clean very fast down the line surf, it has no top end I've been able to find yet. It consistently made waves from behind Rincon through the Bowl at Bells back in Easter. Well known pro surfer stole it and took it up to the Goldie afterward and onlookers actually thought it was a towboard.

I think there's a bit to be gained from bleeding towboard ideas into regular boards, especially with the wider use of eps/epoxy these days. That's one avenue anyway.

I think the whole idea about pro surfers' boards being unsuited to average surfers is kind of superannuated, for christ's sake that's been the raison d'etre behind everything from SurfTech to GSI for the past 10 years. What I honestly think is weird right now is that "soul" surfers have gone down an even more extreme road. You think a 6'2"x18.5x2.25 is hard to ride? Ha! try an Alaia!!

[bohdidontsurf]

I have a pretty crazy board right now, made by Maurice Cole. 5'11", outline thrown forward into the nose, pulled to a moon tail. Super deep single concave beginning about 6" back and peaking just ahead of the front fin set, there's gotta be nearly an inch of concave at its peak. Centre line of the board from front foot to tail is pretty much dead straight -- even a tiny fraction of convex in front of the fins. Concave bleeds out via a spine-type vee behind the back fin. RedX fin set with back fin slightly bigger than the two forward. Two thick single-wood stringers lined up with the side fin boxes, converging slightly toward the nose. EPS foam epoxy resin 4x4oz glass.

Basically this is a bleed-over from towboard design. The super concave provides colossal lift; the twin stringers provide ultra stiffness and certainty in turns at speed (the board doesn't flex more than absolutely necessary); the vee spine provides extreme back end release. The bigger back fin setup is necessary simply to control the board at speed.

Board is suited to solid clean very fast down the line surf, it has no top end I've been able to find yet. It consistently made waves from behind Rincon through the Bowl at Bells back in Easter. Well known pro surfer stole it and took it up to the Goldie afterward and onlookers actually thought it was a towboard.

I think there's a bit to be gained from bleeding towboard ideas into regular boards, especially with the wider use of eps/epoxy these days. That's one avenue anyway.

I think the whole idea about pro surfers' boards being unsuited to average surfers is kind of superannuated, for christ's sake that's been the raison d'etre behind everything from SurfTech to GSI for the past 10 years. What I honestly think is weird right now is that "soul" surfers have gone down an even more extreme road. You think a 6'2"x18.5x2.25 is hard to ride? Ha! try an Alaia!!

5'11 ?? how much do you weigh Nick? Re flex, I am finding more and more that I love flex....well the right amount of flex. I had a step up quad made with double stringer (it is EPS and Epoxy and it helped put a bit of weight in the board) and I really notice the lack of flex. I can definately make a board go faster that has a bit of give to it.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Like the look of them all, the webber sounds too good to be true.
I find myself reaching for my fat-bat for most conditions now, and more standard shorty quad when the waves get a bit better. They're great fun to ride.

Whats your opinion of the fat bullet? I like the look of the thing, but I'm interested to hear how it rides and what its like in different conditions?

The more I read this forum, it sounds like a lot of people are converting to quads and are not prepared to go back to a thruster. I've never tried one to be honest, but if it has the same drive as a twinny it sounds like great fun.

[robzig]

[Cpt.Caveman]

So that was you out that day?

How does it go when the surf gets a bit more solid?

[robzig]

[speedneedle]

Quads are getting so that even the shapers most reluctant, some of us who saw their 80's burst of popularity and ensuing demise, are going in for them.

Workshop debate about Kelly's wizard sleeve thingy sees the the wisened old geezers chuckling :-

" I was onto that way back when Ted Spencer and Baddy Treloar were in nappies." (etc, etc...)

I'm grateful to Bruce Mckee for publishing his stats on quad fin placement...with application of the principles that determine drive versus looseness, and detachable fins which allow experimentation, guys are getting the maximum enjoyment out of four fins.

Quads on semi-fish are working for a couple of my customers. The feedback will see me doing one for myself, even!

[Cpt.Caveman]

The guys at Sunova seem to be doing some interesting things with the different materials that they're using in order to incorporate more flex when its needed, and less flex where it helps to maintain speed.

What do you guys think?

http://www.sunovasurfboards.com/technic ... ation.html

[ric_vidal]

The guys at Sunova seem to be doing some interesting things with the different materials that they're using in order to incorporate more flex when its needed, and less flex where it helps to maintain speed.

What do you guys think?

Interesting yes, but the best construction won't compensate for an inappropriate design. All boards flex to varying degrees, so do fins and there seems to be plenty of debate as to which is best. You can stand on an upturned poly board if ya really want, it will spring back too.

Had a Firewire in for repair last week, a girl's board and sub 6' so you got to figure she was pretty small, or pretty and small.... this is relevent. One of the paddle pop stick models with the inbuilt springer ala what Bert and Sunova are doing. Trouble is the springer had delaminated from the foam, not what it was in for repair either.

Is this the forefront of design?

Another thing that has been pointed out to me is that the bottom rail is often a fairly tight radius, you can guarantee this is due to the composite construction, I know, I've done it.

[pridmore]

Quads on semi-fish are working for a couple of my customers. The feedback will see me doing one for myself, even!


does that mean you been makin them without testing them yourself ???

[Cpt.Caveman]

Interesting yes, but the best construction won't compensate for an inappropriate design. All boards flex to varying degrees, so do fins and there seems to be plenty of debate as to which is best. You can stand on an upturned poly board if ya really want, it will spring back too.

Good point, I guess every part of the design has an effect on the way the board surf's right? The dimensions, the dispersion of volume, rocker, tail, fin set-up, fin placement, etc.

I'm definitely not very knowledgeable in how all of these factors effect the board overall, but I'm starting to think that now its more about the question "what do you want a board to do? and how do you want it to feel to suit your surfing?"

Sounds like an exciting time in board design, as many shapers seem to be exploring exactly that.

[speedneedle]

Yeah Mark, actually, as I stated in the friendly comment I made in relation to the quad you made for Steve, I had them the first time around, and I'm overcoming my reservations. I have a shed full of variations on board design, stingers, twins, concave decks, HP thrusters, but I don't have a quad in my quiver, yet...

25 yrs shaping, an understanding of the principles, along with, again I say, Mckees helpful guidelines, and its not a blind leap of faith to stab an extra fin on. Here's what DV8 had to say. Its deeply satisfying to read for me and part of the reason why I want to make myself one...

"Verdict is in after a few hours in 3-4ft clean lefts this morning. This thing flies. Instant speed of the mark is great . I havent felt this much squirt before in a board. I guess thats a combo of the 4 fins and the wider plan shape. Used the M-7 & G1000 combo it seems to be a good mix ,felt like it had the right combo of drive and release.
Loving the few inches shorter board also as you get to your feet and they are straight into the sweet
spot, no shuffling around to find it . My new favourite toy !!!"

Ric, on the point of too little roll under in the bottom rail on composites...thats not a problem I have.

Josh
http://www.joshdowlingshape.com

[pridmore]

cool, you should make yourself one, I have been loving them but have just sold 2 unfortunately and had plans for a newy but a new blank with great tech just fell thru...