Duckdiving Larger Waves

[Felix]

I'll never forget going back to a Mal (well 8ft anyway) after riding short boards from '67 to '86.

Tried to duckdive Longy Bombie at about 8ft, went backwards for about 100 metres and nearly drowned. You just cannot push that much area deep enough under the water surface. Back to the old eski (eskimo roll). It sure is harder to get out the back in a decent swell on a long board.

[spotty]

I'll never forget going back to a Mal (well 8ft anyway) after riding short boards from '67 to '86.

Tried to duckdive Longy Bombie at about 8ft, went backwards for about 100 metres and nearly drowned. You just cannot push that much area deep enough under the water surface. Back to the old eski (eskimo roll). It sure is harder to get out the back in a decent swell on a long board.

I ride boards up to 8Ft long in most conditions here...the trick to duck-diving a larger surfboard is much simpler than you can imagine...just start your dive earlier...(it takes longer to sink a bigger board)...the only problem with diving a big board is that they tend to flex (snap) good luck....

[Felix]

Surf the waterskate now if it gets bigger. Back in '86 the noses on the Mals were really full, you just couldn't get 'em under.

[Slowman]

Yes. If you tilt your board to one side, onto the nose rail, there's less surface area and thus less initial water resistance, thus you sink quicker.

Once down, turn the board so it's flat again, and it'll resist re-surfacing.

Shit Nick. After 25 odd years surfing, I had never heard of that. Can't wait to give it a go now. You do learn something everyday.

Never heard of it either, will also try it. So just because I am anal, what angle? 45o?

[chrisb]

My approach to duckdiving the bigger ones is to let out a feeble squeel, dickdive as deep as I can, then hold on to the board wrapping myself around it...

I also love to dickdive as deep as I can too but can't we get back to the topic of surfing

[Slowman]

Yes. If you tilt your board to one side, onto the nose rail, there's less surface area and thus less initial water resistance, thus you sink quicker.

Once down, turn the board so it's flat again, and it'll resist re-surfacing.

Shit Nick. After 25 odd years surfing, I had never heard of that. Can't wait to give it a go now. You do learn something everyday.

Never heard of it either, will also try it. So just because I am anal, what angle? 45o?

While I've never angled the board sideways (roll) I do probably duckdive the board in a forward and downward movement while angling the board down (pitch) at about 30-45 degrees and have found it works pretty well and I can get deep enough and quickly enough to avoid getting fin sliced by someone about to bottom turn on my head. It works well as the wave approaches and the base of it rises a little, so going forward and down at an angle means you are almost submerging at an angle perpendicular to the surface of the wave face. However this relies on you being close enough to the approaching wave.

For large waves where you are in the wrong spot and it will break just in front a bit that is where I'd like to be able to get deeper. You aren't close enough to the wave to use its opposing momentum and the water is pretty flat. I remember one day at Voodoo we paddled out at the wrong time and the channel closed out with a set. Both me and a mate got hit by an 8' foamy and were washed all the way into Boat Harbour - that's a good 500m away! Currents were at work too but being able to get deeper I'm sure would have helped (maybe only 200m).

So any recommendation on the angle you roll the board as you duck dive Nick? If it's 90o I'll have to make sure I don't slip a leg over either side

[Nick Carroll]

Just do what feels right, tip it around 45 degrees I guess.

I gotta say I don't push the nose down at that much of an angle, I try to keep the board pretty horizontal along the stringer line, sinking the whole board at once, nose down means tail up means wave impact on tail means....

Plus you lose forward momentum by directing it downward.

It's the same if you're swimming and diving under waves on the way out -- if you dive down at an angle, you're gonna come up at an angle, so you've gotta reorient yourself in order to keep swimming. A flat submerge means a flat re-surface, and less loss of momentum. If you've ever competed in a surf swim race you'll know what I mean.

[Slowman]

Thanks Nick, I'll try and work it in to my duck dive, though there are certain places where duck diving isn't possible and it is just a case of spread out and relax....or get up and start running ...but I'm older and more sensible these days.

...It's the same if you're swimming and diving under waves on the way out -- if you dive down at an angle, you're gonna come up at an angle, so you've gotta reorient yourself in order to keep swimming. A flat submerge means a flat re-surface, and less loss of momentum. If you've ever competed in a surf swim race you'll know what I mean.

Yes I've done a few surf swim races, I recommend a mouth guard and a wide elbow stroke . Hmmm perhaps I could do one of those mini-ironmans you've organised from time to time up at Newy SLSC?

[Nick Carroll]

Hmmm perhaps I could do one of those mini-ironmans you've organised from time to time up at Newy SLSC?

Fark, I wouldn't come up and swim with the Newport SLSC water masters team if I were you...they'll ruin your life Trip you on the way down the sand...punch and kick you all the way to the cans...leave you to gag on the foam from their double beat kick...then strand you just in time for me to run you over in the board leg

It's not pretty I tell ya.

[Slowman]

Hmmm perhaps I could do one of those mini-ironmans you've organised from time to time up at Newy SLSC?

Fark, I wouldn't come up and swim with the Newport SLSC water masters team if I were you...they'll ruin your life Trip you on the way down the sand...punch and kick you all the way to the cans...leave you to gag on the foam from their double beat kick...then strand you just in time for me to run you over in the board leg

It's not pretty I tell ya.

What's not to like? Perhaps I could show them a proper 6 beat kick punching and kicking in the swim, you guys sound tough almost unheard of in Shire. I surfed at Newport once and the whole place is tough even the copper log fence I was walking along decided to roll under my feet and give me a cracking graze up my shin as I fell on it. I think I am prepared for anything. No wonder those Avalonians don't want to come south of the bends.

[marcus]

I hope you guys dont mind a booger like me joining in this convo, but i find it interesting, and am learning at the moment to duckdive various sized boards.

Nick with regards to your advice in going down horizontal and letting the board come up naturally, I tend to dissagree. however as you know, i am a beginner surfboard rider and am thinking from a bodyboard perspective and am open to advice.

I push down (on both boogie and thruster) the nose pushing with foot on tail pad.
then underwater use the board to scoop an arc and pull myself through the wave.
(to understand this,try swimming underwater with a maccas tray or kickboard, you can pull yourself through the water by scooping like a dolphin).
i dont know how relevant this is to your shortboard craft, however i have found i can overtake people duckdiving by doing this.
that and keeping eyes open and looking for underwater foam balls and avoiding them. (sort of like a space ship avoiding asteroids in a milky way) you dodge white balls underwater.
i hope that makes sense.

[Slowman]

...

I push down (on both boogie and thruster) the nose pushing with foot on tail pad.
then underwater use the board to scoop an arc and pull myself through the wave.
...

That is pretty much how I currently duck dive and can get pretty deep, perhaps I should have explained I might initially point the board down at 45o but when I surface I come up at like 45o and trace an arc. I have gotten pretty deep and actually come up underneath another surfer, frightening him in the process. It works well but timing is everything as the wave passes. It is pretty neat looking around under there.

I want to try "NC technique" to see if it helps preserve forward motion any better. I am probably never going to test it in really big stuff anymore but as I have started competing again, just local club stuff, anything that promises to help paddle out faster and catch more waves I'll try. I tend to think it will be abetter option when a broken wave is coming.

[acecactus]

Like the info about board sizes versus thickness. True, too big can be a problem but...

...it depends on ability- we arn't all pros. So the trend for smaller boards leads to people being a bit under sized in my opinion. Some people take out smaller size boards as a bit of a statement of how good they think they are (Look at me on my 6'0). Take off, huge drop, heaps of speed, go the big bottom turn and then that little bit of chop, whitewash or boil or something has them on their bum in a milli-second.

[bc]

Jamie O'Brien wrote an article recently about the scoop Nick talks about,
but takes it a step further.
On a board with minimal buoyancy, and impeccable timing,
it seems you can keep scooping from side to side and keep getting deeper.
He claims being able to grab sand 10' below the water and resurfacing never having let go of the board.

I've tried it on my friends little toothpicks, (my boards are too hefty)
and don't get any further than the second scoop,
but it feels doable with practice and better coordination than I have.