Kettlebells

Wondering if there are surfable waves someplace you've never visited? Or have you had an injury and want to compare experiences? Do it here!

Moderators: Shari, collnarra, Butts, Forum Moderators

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Thu May 18, 2017 1:00 pm

for which parameter?
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15480
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by alakaboo » Thu May 18, 2017 1:03 pm

Skill set.
I'm still improving rather than reinforcing stuff I never learnt.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Thu May 18, 2017 1:09 pm

Not having a go at you Boo, but don't you surf once a month or less?

How can you improve skill set doing it that infrequently?

Not discounting what you are saying.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15480
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by alakaboo » Thu May 18, 2017 1:17 pm

That's my point. I'm not reinforcing anything.

When I am on the coast for a week I spend the first 5 sessions just getting back to my baseline, only then do I start to try new things.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Thu May 18, 2017 1:21 pm

yeah, but how do you consolidate the new things?
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
Cranked
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 5291
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:52 am
Location: Willetton

Re: Kettlebells

Post by Cranked » Thu May 18, 2017 3:02 pm

I would be content to surf how I did 30 years ago
“I don’t necessarily agree with everything I say ”— Marshall McLuhan

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15480
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by alakaboo » Thu May 18, 2017 3:25 pm

steve shearer wrote:yeah, but how do you consolidate the new things?
I don't, that's why they are new.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Thu May 18, 2017 4:43 pm

I shoulda known I was walking into that.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15480
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by alakaboo » Thu May 18, 2017 5:25 pm

Maybe you need to add some sudoku to your regimen

ctd
barnacle
Posts: 1460
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by ctd » Thu May 18, 2017 9:32 pm

steve shearer wrote:
I breakdown the physical requirements of surfing into strength, conditioning and skill set. .
Have a look at Gray Cook's performance pyramid

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Fri May 19, 2017 1:05 pm

thanks, that guy seems right on.

Have you read his book? Thinking about ordering it.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

ctd
barnacle
Posts: 1460
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by ctd » Sat May 20, 2017 5:29 pm

steve shearer wrote:thanks, that guy seems right on.

Have you read his book? Thinking about ordering it.
I havent but his ideas/similar ideas have been fairly influential on health/fitness for a while eg this has a slight variation in terminology and focus but is much the same concept http://nicktumminello.com/2014/09/funct ... -nonsense/

That article has a great quote

we don’t load skills with our specific exercise applications — we work on improving specific force generation patterns, which transfer into target movements that commonly occur in the athlete’s sport. (and later on muscles create movements)

This is explained in the article, but basically you dont match the movement and then load it up (eg use a weighted baseball bat); you determine the movement required and the 'force generation' (muscles) and then target those muscles in the best way possible (which may or may not be similar to the actual movement) eg he references rotational medicine ball throws to improve rotary power for a baseball player or golfer

Anyway, its an interesting issue to think about surfing specific 'force generation patterns'. Obviously there is the prone position (paddling) where the upper back and shoulders are involved; but you dont need to be that good a paddler to surf up to a certain wave size/type (obviously fitness/conditioning affects the length of time you can surf which impacts on skill development). Pecs and biceps help the pop up a bit (but no great strength is required). And then once you are up and surfing, those paddling muscles become mostly redundant and you start using your core/glutes and, probably, quads/hammies? Ankles/calves perhaps?

I've never really been able to think of surf specific force generation that doesnt involve more or less doing whole body training, since every muscle is arguably used. The core (including glutes) through rotational and anti rotational (maybe anti-lateral flexion) plus glute work is obvious; beyond that its almost pick your weakest link and work on it.

Beerfan
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 7558
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by Beerfan » Sun May 21, 2017 7:09 am

You can end up spending crazy amounts of time working on each weak link though, and it can get confusing. This year I've cut down to twice a week lifting. One heavy deadlifting day, with squats as assistance and the other heavy squats with rdl as assistance, and both days overhead press. 45 mins max for both and I'm stronger than last year and bigger. Simple and effective and I've got energy left for boxing 2-3 times a week.



Im still waiting to see how the increased strength and fitness translates to surfing. Mainly because I'm constantly getting skunked by not surfing that much ( when you don't get out much you always seem to get crap waves when you can get out ). Can't catch a break in that regard.
we are the angry mob
We read the papers everyday
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Sun May 21, 2017 10:58 am

my golden 3 exercises for surfing.

Pullups.......guaranteed paddling improvement.

swiss ball jacknife....guaranteed pop-up improvement/maintenance.

Kettlebells swings.......incredible at force generation through turns/core strength/hip drive.

and go barefoot. weak feet/ankles are the biggest curse of the cube monkey.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
Legion
Duke Status
Posts: 11034
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:21 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by Legion » Sun May 21, 2017 12:21 pm

None of those will do much for feet/ankles, shoes or not steven.

Olympic lifting has a big emphasis on ankles, as part of the triple extension.

I'd say beach running is about as good as it gets for feet and ankles. Maybe hopping across the stones too. But not so much controlled lifts.

ctd
barnacle
Posts: 1460
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by ctd » Sun May 21, 2017 1:43 pm

Beerfan wrote:You can end up spending crazy amounts of time working on each weak link though, and it can get confusing.
yes, in terms of both general strength and 'surf specific' strength, a basic 'PPL' - 'push [bench, overhead press], pull [pull ups, row], legs [squats, deads and hip thrusts/kettlebells]' - routine, plus some specific core work, is probably sufficient for 90%+ of people.

I have never done boxing but it does seem to be a good exercise. Should look into it.

User avatar
Legion
Duke Status
Posts: 11034
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:21 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by Legion » Sun May 21, 2017 1:50 pm

steve shearer wrote:...guaranteed pop-up improvement/maintenance.
Have you ever lacked in this area? I've never felt I needed improvement or maintenance. The only time my pop-ups have been poor is if it's single digits and 20kt onshore, I've been surfing for a few hours and rigor mortis is setting in. Maybe it's an area one of those cursed cube monkeys needs to work on but if you regularly surf it's more muscle memory and just an easy leg swing underneath.

I'd probably say a pushing movement would be more important, for those days when you need to do 1000 duckdives. Or cardio, when it's 20kt onshore and you duckdive only to come up and have to repeat again immediately five waves in a row.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 20707
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Kettlebells

Post by steve shearer » Sun May 21, 2017 5:31 pm

Not really its maintenance for me but inevitably the biggest problem for people as they age is a crisp popup. Lose that and you lose the confidence to take on critical surf.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests